Discussion
Okay, I get the feeling my viewpoints on dogs are being misconstrued as being quite extreme, so I want to try and understand this from a dog owners perspective, and perhaps put my viewpoint across less aggressively.
So a dog is seen as a companion, a part of the family, defended as if it were someones child. Dogs were initially teamed with humans for hunting purposes, and back in Olde England were quite possibly a must have accessory for defence and hunting. As time went on, dogs became more and more pampered, and eventually they became domesticated, in so far as any animal can be domesticated. People started living with them in their houses, going "aawww, cute" a lot, and putting up with everything that having an animal living in your house brings.
Now that seems like an odd choice to me. Even a clean dog is a pretty dirty animal. They dont understand general hygiene, and poo and wee wherever they feel like when outside. To the owner, who stands there grinning while his dog de-fouls the sidewalk, it's pretty normal that his dog just poo'd and wee'd all over somewhere people walk. He picks up the poo, but some is always left behind, but hey, it's a dog, it's normal. Now if I sat down and did the same, there'd be outrage!! disgusting!! But it's a dog, it's okay.
The dog barks a lot, sometimes until 11PM, but the owners never seem to notice it much. Poor neighbours, who if they dare approach the owner to speak to them, get a mouthful of abuse from an outraged owner, for whom their dog can do no wrong. The behaviour of dogs always seems to be aggressively defended, very rarely can you just speak to a dog owner about it without them getting very defensive. I can only put that down to some sort of "dog" mentality that exists with owners, where they refuse to be told anything negative about the animal.
Then there's the agression of the dog itself. Yes, it's been around children all it's life, or it would never hurt a fly, but that doesnt mean I want it running up to my child and bouncing all over the place. The only method that animal has of indicating something hurts, or is wrong, is by snapping and biting, so to the woman who's large dog ran up to my littler girl, and started barking, and who got aggressive when I stood between my little girl and the dog and shouted at it, and who insisted it wouldnt have hurt her, how do I know? should I wait to see if she is proven right?
I appreciate (and hope) that PH's are more considerate dog owners, but I also want them to understand that for an outsider who doesnt like or consider dogs anymore than they do a sheep on a farm, it's a very different perspective, and I dont think the animal is adorable, harmless, perfectly clean, or doesnt bother anyone with it's barking, because when it's not yours it very likely does.
I dont know when the UK went all dog crazy, but it did, and I do smile back from every owner I walk past who is taking their dog for a walk (dog owners always seem to smile while they hang onto the dog to try and stop it running over to you to lick or jump or poo), but I really will never understand this obsession.
So a dog is seen as a companion, a part of the family, defended as if it were someones child. Dogs were initially teamed with humans for hunting purposes, and back in Olde England were quite possibly a must have accessory for defence and hunting. As time went on, dogs became more and more pampered, and eventually they became domesticated, in so far as any animal can be domesticated. People started living with them in their houses, going "aawww, cute" a lot, and putting up with everything that having an animal living in your house brings.
Now that seems like an odd choice to me. Even a clean dog is a pretty dirty animal. They dont understand general hygiene, and poo and wee wherever they feel like when outside. To the owner, who stands there grinning while his dog de-fouls the sidewalk, it's pretty normal that his dog just poo'd and wee'd all over somewhere people walk. He picks up the poo, but some is always left behind, but hey, it's a dog, it's normal. Now if I sat down and did the same, there'd be outrage!! disgusting!! But it's a dog, it's okay.
The dog barks a lot, sometimes until 11PM, but the owners never seem to notice it much. Poor neighbours, who if they dare approach the owner to speak to them, get a mouthful of abuse from an outraged owner, for whom their dog can do no wrong. The behaviour of dogs always seems to be aggressively defended, very rarely can you just speak to a dog owner about it without them getting very defensive. I can only put that down to some sort of "dog" mentality that exists with owners, where they refuse to be told anything negative about the animal.
Then there's the agression of the dog itself. Yes, it's been around children all it's life, or it would never hurt a fly, but that doesnt mean I want it running up to my child and bouncing all over the place. The only method that animal has of indicating something hurts, or is wrong, is by snapping and biting, so to the woman who's large dog ran up to my littler girl, and started barking, and who got aggressive when I stood between my little girl and the dog and shouted at it, and who insisted it wouldnt have hurt her, how do I know? should I wait to see if she is proven right?
I appreciate (and hope) that PH's are more considerate dog owners, but I also want them to understand that for an outsider who doesnt like or consider dogs anymore than they do a sheep on a farm, it's a very different perspective, and I dont think the animal is adorable, harmless, perfectly clean, or doesnt bother anyone with it's barking, because when it's not yours it very likely does.
I dont know when the UK went all dog crazy, but it did, and I do smile back from every owner I walk past who is taking their dog for a walk (dog owners always seem to smile while they hang onto the dog to try and stop it running over to you to lick or jump or poo), but I really will never understand this obsession.
Nor me. I have nothing against dogs or owners but I see them as essentially akin to owning a child that will never grow up. Something that regularly needs disinfecting, can never be entirely trusted to behave itself, that brings parasites into the home & eats it's own s
t. Barking dogs are a blight where I live & the owners are not remotely interested in their neighbours' peace & quiet.
I have sprinted twenty yards to stop my infant daughter putting her fingers in her mouth after dipping them in dog st. I get that it's the owners rather than the animals but I don't see any great compelling reason to indulge as domesticated animal to the almost unique extent that we do in this country. I guess I'm just not a pet person.
t. Barking dogs are a blight where I live & the owners are not remotely interested in their neighbours' peace & quiet. I have sprinted twenty yards to stop my infant daughter putting her fingers in her mouth after dipping them in dog s
t. I get that it's the owners rather than the animals but I don't see any great compelling reason to indulge as domesticated animal to the almost unique extent that we do in this country. I guess I'm just not a pet person.My son has 2 black labs at his mothers. I'm seen as the anti-christ when I pick him up as I just can't be doing with them. When I walk in the biggest one makes a beeline straight for my crotch. It looks like I've wet myself when I leave. It can't walk in a straight line either, every manouvre I make is met with the stupid thing weaving in and out of my legs and tripping me up. It needs feeding, walking in all weathers and likes to eat poo when out and about. She loves them both and has a new set of frineds from a dog walkers club but the last thing I'd want after a hard day at work is to be knocked over and licked (unless Jessica Alba in involved).
I also have 2 tiny pointless yappy things either side of me at home. When one is quiet at night the other one decides to make up for it.
Each to their own and all that, I'm just not a dog lover.
I also have 2 tiny pointless yappy things either side of me at home. When one is quiet at night the other one decides to make up for it.
Each to their own and all that, I'm just not a dog lover.
I'm another that just doesn't get the dog 'thing'. I can understand people who need them for work putting up with them, shepherds etc. But to have one or more for no particular reason seems bizarre.
Cats, now that's different altogether. Cats are really nice and every family should have one, or two even, if they get on with each other.
Cats, now that's different altogether. Cats are really nice and every family should have one, or two even, if they get on with each other.
A year ago I would have agreed with everything you say.
I have a mildy autistic daughter and was advised a dog would be a very good companion for her, I also work away so combining that with a presence in the house I gave in and bought one.
We love him, he is really good company, he seems to have finished off our family, the only downside is, he won't live that long.
I have a mildy autistic daughter and was advised a dog would be a very good companion for her, I also work away so combining that with a presence in the house I gave in and bought one.
We love him, he is really good company, he seems to have finished off our family, the only downside is, he won't live that long.
This is her with her favourite person in the world, and I know no f
ker will ever harm her with him around.I get your arguments though, I wouldn't try to make you see my point of view, people are different.
P.S, no comments on the carpet please, we friggin hate it, and I can't believe we haven't got around to replacing it yet.
ok let's try to be analytical (spelling?)n this one as it can be a very controversial topic
Canis Lupus Familiaris or the Domestic dog does indeed have some roots and shared genetic lineage with Canis Lupus (grey wolf), however many years ago someone decided/discovered that they could be trained to an extent and so began the centuries of domestication. The term 'Mans best friend' is admitedly a misnomer because although animals can feel some emotions that could be interpreted in a human way and appear to follow our commands giving the perception of loyalty the reality is somewhat different. Most people believe that they own purebreeds and cross breeds when infact purebreeds are designed. By mixing the desired traits of dogs together to create either a worker or hunter or just a family pet. Its this crossing and domestication that has diluted the wolf within 99% of the dogs around. The fact is some of us find them cute and some of us find them repulsive Its sadly perspective. Regardless of how well you know your animal you have to bear in mind that it is out for its own exsistence and depending on its perceptions of what is going on can be either exploited by us or dangerous to us they are still in a small percentage of their genetic coding a wolf.
I Have 3 Dogs and love them to bits. do i trust any of them no just because regardless of how well trained i belive they are i cannot overrule basic instinct. i would never 100% any dog to be 'safe' but id would never trust any one or any animal 100% either
Canis Lupus Familiaris or the Domestic dog does indeed have some roots and shared genetic lineage with Canis Lupus (grey wolf), however many years ago someone decided/discovered that they could be trained to an extent and so began the centuries of domestication. The term 'Mans best friend' is admitedly a misnomer because although animals can feel some emotions that could be interpreted in a human way and appear to follow our commands giving the perception of loyalty the reality is somewhat different. Most people believe that they own purebreeds and cross breeds when infact purebreeds are designed. By mixing the desired traits of dogs together to create either a worker or hunter or just a family pet. Its this crossing and domestication that has diluted the wolf within 99% of the dogs around. The fact is some of us find them cute and some of us find them repulsive Its sadly perspective. Regardless of how well you know your animal you have to bear in mind that it is out for its own exsistence and depending on its perceptions of what is going on can be either exploited by us or dangerous to us they are still in a small percentage of their genetic coding a wolf.
I Have 3 Dogs and love them to bits. do i trust any of them no just because regardless of how well trained i belive they are i cannot overrule basic instinct. i would never 100% any dog to be 'safe' but id would never trust any one or any animal 100% either
I think a liking for companion animals (dogs, cats or whatever) is one of those subjects for which explanation is either unnecessary or impossible. You probably need to have been brought up with them or otherwise exposed to them in a family situation.
To be honest, I've always liked dogs, we had them when I was a boy, but didn't really like cats much until my wife imposed three of the buggers on me. The first one we got attached himself to me and pretty much became "my" cat. He wouldn't really let anybody else manhandle him, though he did become more chilled as he got older. Still miss that cat.
If you don't "get" them, you will only see the downside. I understand that. There are things other people enjoy that I just don't see the point in. You just have to accept that the upside is worth it to the other person.
To be honest, I've always liked dogs, we had them when I was a boy, but didn't really like cats much until my wife imposed three of the buggers on me. The first one we got attached himself to me and pretty much became "my" cat. He wouldn't really let anybody else manhandle him, though he did become more chilled as he got older. Still miss that cat.
If you don't "get" them, you will only see the downside. I understand that. There are things other people enjoy that I just don't see the point in. You just have to accept that the upside is worth it to the other person.
ReallyReallyGood said:
I don't see how it's ethical to claim ownership over another sentient life form for the purposes of companionship. It just highlights that person's insecurities or shortcomings if they need companionship from an animal slave. It's rather cruel to me.
I don't think that's remotely accurate. Dogs in effect have a deal - companionship & in some cases, work in return for shelter & food. Anyway, I like playing the electric guitar, but if I took it out in my garden at 11pm & started hacking away, I imagine I'd have the neighbours round in quick time. Odd then that the same neighbours think nothing of letting their dog bark for thirty minutes every night while I'm trying to get some peace & quiet. As ever, it's not the dogs per se, but the owners. I suppose you could apply the same logic to teenagers, bald men in vests with goatees & cyclists.I fully appreciate that we are all different, and some people will love a dog, some wont, but I suppose I am trying to get across the point that dog owners almost assume others should feel the same way about their dog that they do, and fail to see the inconvenience or unpleasantness they can bring to others who deliberately dont have dogs.
I dont have a dog, yet I have to put up with the barking, the fouling, dogs running all over the place if I go to a park.
That sort of behaviour wouldnt be accepted from people, but because it's a dog it's like their behaviour should automatically be overlooked by everyone else.
I dont have a dog, yet I have to put up with the barking, the fouling, dogs running all over the place if I go to a park.
That sort of behaviour wouldnt be accepted from people, but because it's a dog it's like their behaviour should automatically be overlooked by everyone else.
ReallyReallyGood said:
I don't see how it's ethical to claim ownership over another sentient life form for the purposes of companionship. It just highlights that person's insecurities or shortcomings if they need companionship from an animal slave. It's rather cruel to me.
Slave? Really? My dogs get fed, watered, walked, groomed, private healthcare, played with, supplied with toys, comfortable beds, warm and secure living conditions, love and companionship.I get to pick up poo, have my nuts jumped on, go for long walks in the cold and wet, provide all of the above, used as a mobile grooming table and squashed up into a tiny corner of the sofa if I manage to get on there.
Who's the slave?
That's not even bringing the cat into the equation.
It isn't something you can understand until you have one I don't think. A bit like a motorbike unless you have ridden one you don't understand no matter how many times it can be described.
I'm sure I'm half Vulcan. I don't have those things you call feelings. I knew I would like my dog I just didn't realise how much.
The bond is more than friendship I get so much joy from the little creature I am not able to put it to words. He is my world, if I could I would take him everywhere.
Is he one of the family. Hell yes. Is he like a son? Hell yes. Don't dis my dog.
Will you understand, no I don't think so. Do I care if you do? No. Like what you want do what you want. He's my dog and my life.
live yours and stop worrying about other people.
Edit. I shouldn't reply to obvious trolling but hey ho.
Slave? Lol he's the boss in our house who picks up his st, feeds him, plays with him.
If he was a slave he wouldn't get anything out of it. But He gets a warm house, food, looked after, taken places.
If anything the humans in this relationship are the slaves. And it is a two way relationship we are his pack too.
He wouldn't leave he would fight to the death to protect us and we him. Unless you know that bond you cannot understand and IMO you have a special thing absent from your life.
But why do you care don't get a dog.
I'm sure I'm half Vulcan. I don't have those things you call feelings. I knew I would like my dog I just didn't realise how much.
The bond is more than friendship I get so much joy from the little creature I am not able to put it to words. He is my world, if I could I would take him everywhere.
Is he one of the family. Hell yes. Is he like a son? Hell yes. Don't dis my dog.
Will you understand, no I don't think so. Do I care if you do? No. Like what you want do what you want. He's my dog and my life.
live yours and stop worrying about other people.
Edit. I shouldn't reply to obvious trolling but hey ho.
Slave? Lol he's the boss in our house who picks up his s
t, feeds him, plays with him.If he was a slave he wouldn't get anything out of it. But He gets a warm house, food, looked after, taken places.
If anything the humans in this relationship are the slaves. And it is a two way relationship we are his pack too.
He wouldn't leave he would fight to the death to protect us and we him. Unless you know that bond you cannot understand and IMO you have a special thing absent from your life.
But why do you care don't get a dog.
Edited by Pesty on Thursday 7th August 18:18
ReallyReallyGood said:
How they are treated, or what kind of bed they have, is irrelevant as to whether they are a slave, which they are.
You are a Dog aren't you, you feel imprisoned and a slave like a Dog. I've caught you out as Dogs think everything is "reallyreallygood" it's their favourite! You couldn't even hide the fact you are a dog as you love typing drivel so much even your user name is how you felt when signing up to the everlasting freedom you saw the internet was. Now you are realising the internet isn't freedom you once again are a slave, a slave to your masters.Chin up Toto have a Bonio
I'm a dog owner and love my dog to bits.
I'd never assume anyone should be interested in my dog, nor would I try to change their views.
But, like with anything in life, you get people who think the world revolves around their world and those that realise that's not the case.
If you don't get dogs, you just don't get it. It's like anything else in life - some do, some don't.
I'd never assume anyone should be interested in my dog, nor would I try to change their views.
But, like with anything in life, you get people who think the world revolves around their world and those that realise that's not the case.
If you don't get dogs, you just don't get it. It's like anything else in life - some do, some don't.
Forum | All Creatures Great & Small | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff