Do you believe in God?
Discussion
- Please keep this thread respectful to all points of view and faiths,
If there is a God, why does he/she allow all these terrible wars going back to biblical times, three years olds to die of cancer, plane crashes, etc, etc.
On the other hand, if I was at a close relative's bedside in hospital, where it would be touch and go after an operation, I would probably pray to myself and say "Please God, let him/her pull through"
This obviously makes me a hypocrite, I suppose I want God to be there when it suits me,
Difficult one, please keep all replies reasoned and respectful, no need to start WW3 on here.
Politics and religion discussions are usually best avoided in my experience,
Respectfully, I find anyone who actually 'believes' in a god to be weak minded and a bit foolish.
If heaven promises to be as good as believed, why would anyone struggle to carve out a life before going to the afterlife?
is it because they don't really believe, they just hold on to some fantasy for comfort or to belong?
If God created everything, why can't he smite all those that are evil?
And those that say it creates a moral basis for good social adhesion; I don't need some fake deity to stop me from committing atrocities.
If heaven promises to be as good as believed, why would anyone struggle to carve out a life before going to the afterlife?
is it because they don't really believe, they just hold on to some fantasy for comfort or to belong?
If God created everything, why can't he smite all those that are evil?
And those that say it creates a moral basis for good social adhesion; I don't need some fake deity to stop me from committing atrocities.
Alpacaman said:
On past experience this thread probably won't make it to two pages. Lots of sky fairy comments and anyone who has a faith must be stupid type responses. I don't think I have seen one go any other way.
Well... Given that any belief in a god is based on faith in man-made ideas with no evidence at all...Personally, I believe that religion is an insurance policy (of sorts) to combat most peoples biggest fear, death.
I don't have religion. My parents do/did, and this gave my Mum comfort when Dad died this May. If it helped her (and him beforehand, never being afraid of death) then great, it's not my place to tell them what's what.
We're all entitled to our beliefs, or not, no need for anyone to be called out IMO.
I don't have religion. My parents do/did, and this gave my Mum comfort when Dad died this May. If it helped her (and him beforehand, never being afraid of death) then great, it's not my place to tell them what's what.
We're all entitled to our beliefs, or not, no need for anyone to be called out IMO.
Edited by Timref81 on Friday 28th August 20:55
I was raised in in a Christian household, made to attend church every Sunday and went to a CofE school. I'm now an atheist.
The thing that tipped me in my early teens was, of all things, an incredible History teacher I had. He didn't say anything about religion, but the one thing he did drum into us was critical thinking, which I then started to apply to all elements of my life.
It struck me that I was being expected to have faith in something that, objectively (for me at least) there was absolutely zero evidence for.
It certainly doesn't mean that a supreme being doesn't exist, but I personally can't believe in something that I have no reason to believe in. In my experience, it amounts to nothing more than "Trust me, bro".
I know that others have their own thoughts and experiences, and I'll respect their beliefs, but it's not for me.
I was having this discussion with one of my very good friends who is very deeply Christian, and he expressed genuine surprise at my atheism - "But, you're one of the most Christian people I know.". Nothing Christian about what I do though - I just live my life by the rule of "Don't be a t
t".
The thing that tipped me in my early teens was, of all things, an incredible History teacher I had. He didn't say anything about religion, but the one thing he did drum into us was critical thinking, which I then started to apply to all elements of my life.
It struck me that I was being expected to have faith in something that, objectively (for me at least) there was absolutely zero evidence for.
It certainly doesn't mean that a supreme being doesn't exist, but I personally can't believe in something that I have no reason to believe in. In my experience, it amounts to nothing more than "Trust me, bro".
I know that others have their own thoughts and experiences, and I'll respect their beliefs, but it's not for me.
I was having this discussion with one of my very good friends who is very deeply Christian, and he expressed genuine surprise at my atheism - "But, you're one of the most Christian people I know.". Nothing Christian about what I do though - I just live my life by the rule of "Don't be a t
t". "If God wants to stop hunger/evil but can't: He is lacking omnipotence
If God can stop hunger/evil but won't: He is malevolent.
If He is both able and willing: Hunger and evil should not exist"
One thing that is very clear if there is a God, they are terrible with money!
"He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow... just can't handle money!"
and lastly, and I think this sums up my thinking too:
"If there is a God, He will have to beg my forgiveness."
If God can stop hunger/evil but won't: He is malevolent.
If He is both able and willing: Hunger and evil should not exist"
One thing that is very clear if there is a God, they are terrible with money!
"He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow... just can't handle money!"
and lastly, and I think this sums up my thinking too:
"If there is a God, He will have to beg my forgiveness."
Yes i believe and confess i'm a very poor example of a Catholic.
Considering the pure evil that continues to spread unchecked we'd all better hope that God is there, considering the foul depths that humans will stoop to it's quite amazing God hasn't given up on the lot of us, maybe He has with some.
Considering the pure evil that continues to spread unchecked we'd all better hope that God is there, considering the foul depths that humans will stoop to it's quite amazing God hasn't given up on the lot of us, maybe He has with some.
Which god? There have been about 3000 gods named throughout recorded civilisation.
If you choose one, by what different method do you disavow all the others?
Before anyone starts on about "faith" in respect of religion, all that really means is believing what someone else tells you with no evidence to back it up.
In answer to "where did we and our planet come from, then" I would ask, what is the point of all the other stuff in the universe (planets, moons, stars etc) if no-one else lives there? Who created them and why?
If you want to believe in a particular god or religion, by all means go ahead - but you shouldn't expect any special privileges. Or to be taken any more seriously than someone that sucks their thumb for "comfort".
If you choose one, by what different method do you disavow all the others?
Before anyone starts on about "faith" in respect of religion, all that really means is believing what someone else tells you with no evidence to back it up.
In answer to "where did we and our planet come from, then" I would ask, what is the point of all the other stuff in the universe (planets, moons, stars etc) if no-one else lives there? Who created them and why?
If you want to believe in a particular god or religion, by all means go ahead - but you shouldn't expect any special privileges. Or to be taken any more seriously than someone that sucks their thumb for "comfort".
Timref81 said:
Personally, I believe that religeon is an insurance policy (of sorts) to combat most peoples biggest fear, death. I don't have religon.
My parents do/did, and this gave my Mum comfort when Dad died this May. If it helped her (and him beforehand, never being afraid of death) then great, it's not my place to tell them what's what.
We're all entitled to our beliefs, or not, no need for anyone to be called out IMO.
I was brought up in a Christian family, went to church regularly and even went in Christian summer camps (a lot more fun than it sounds, the Christianity was only a small part). Don't believe in God but do follow the 'rules' on how to go about your life to a large degree. They make sense in terms of how to treat others etc so I have taken that away from the whole thing. My parents do/did, and this gave my Mum comfort when Dad died this May. If it helped her (and him beforehand, never being afraid of death) then great, it's not my place to tell them what's what.
We're all entitled to our beliefs, or not, no need for anyone to be called out IMO.
As for fear of dying? Not me. Have twice gone to the point of being dead without external intervention, one due to choking, another due to being knocked out cold and needing medical intervention to come round again. The choking one want pleasant but as I got lower and lower on oxygen the pain and panic went away, my vision slowly dimmed and I just stopped working like I was going to sleep really easily. The concussion one was like a light switch, one second you're fine then it just stops instantly. Again I remember the switching off, no pain or panic but it happens so much faster. So no I don't see religion/God being a way to rationalise that side but others might.
I've got no issue with people choosing to believe in a God or religion as long as they respect other people's right to do so in another one it to not believe at all. It's when they try to force it upon you, that where the issue lies for me.
In summary I don't believe in God or anyone deity but do live a Christian lifestyle to a degree.
the cueball said:
"If God wants to stop hunger/evil but can't: He is lacking omnipotence
If God can stop hunger/evil but won't: He is malevolent.
If He is both able and willing: Hunger and evil should not exist"
One thing that is very clear if there is a God, they are terrible with money!
"He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow... just can't handle money!"
and lastly, and I think this sums up my thinking too:
"If there is a God, He will have to beg my forgiveness."
I always wonder if people feel the same way about nature or physics If God can stop hunger/evil but won't: He is malevolent.
If He is both able and willing: Hunger and evil should not exist"
One thing that is very clear if there is a God, they are terrible with money!
"He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow... just can't handle money!"
and lastly, and I think this sums up my thinking too:
"If there is a God, He will have to beg my forgiveness."
I was brought up as a Christian, went to CofE school etc. Grandparents went to church, my parents were married in the local church, me and my sister christened, my sister had her kid christened last year and got married in the same church. My mums funeral is at the same church in two weeks time.
After watching mum suffer a few weeks ago, there is no way that a god exists and would allow that.
I however, consider myself a atheistic satanist, the atheistic bit means I dont believe the devil/satan is real but use it as a symbol for rebellion against the norm, you are your own god etc.
After watching mum suffer a few weeks ago, there is no way that a god exists and would allow that.
I however, consider myself a atheistic satanist, the atheistic bit means I dont believe the devil/satan is real but use it as a symbol for rebellion against the norm, you are your own god etc.
I grew up in a religious household, attended Church every week and went to a very strict church school so had it rammed down my throat for my entire childhood, I personally don't believe in an existence of God but of course there is Pascals wager for the unsure.
If you want to know why god lets bad things happen then the book of job explains it.
I remember my first day in basic training the WO had us in a lecture theatre and was telling us various things, one of which was we were to report to Church on sunday mornings, he said I don't care if you don't believe in god because when your in a trench under fire you'll be begging him to save your arse so you're bloody well going to thank him now.
More generally about religion there is a great explanation by Father Dougal McGuire here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_WUeqlZ5eE
And also Father Jack Hackett
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/h2rp1fyf2TM
If you want to know why god lets bad things happen then the book of job explains it.
I remember my first day in basic training the WO had us in a lecture theatre and was telling us various things, one of which was we were to report to Church on sunday mornings, he said I don't care if you don't believe in god because when your in a trench under fire you'll be begging him to save your arse so you're bloody well going to thank him now.
More generally about religion there is a great explanation by Father Dougal McGuire here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_WUeqlZ5eE
And also Father Jack Hackett
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/h2rp1fyf2TM
I am Christian and do believe in God. The way I see it is the human body, nature and the world is just too complicated to have happened by accident, someone must have designed it.
I believe God allows all the bad things to happen because he gave us free will, and we chose not to obey his rules and so we suffer the consequences of that.
I believe God allows all the bad things to happen because he gave us free will, and we chose not to obey his rules and so we suffer the consequences of that.
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