Why does the Veyron only have 1000bhp?

[horton]

This isn't a dig at the Veyron, but when my girlfriend asked me how many turbos,cylinders,cc my car had compared to the Veyron (the only magazines in the toilet are Evo, so she knows what a Veyron is) I realised that a Veyron is exactly 25% of my car.

I have a 12yr old Toyota Caldina GTT - 2000cc, 4cyl, single turbo, 255bhp VS 8000cc, 16cyl, 4 turbos, 1000bhp in the Veyron.

So Toyota got the same specific output with my 1997 car that cost me about 2.5 grand as Bugatti did with their million pound beast? WTF? why?

When Mitsubishi are getting 400bhp from their 2000cc FQ400, surely Bugatti could be 1500bhp from 8000cc?

[kambites]

The ability to dissipate heat from an engine doesn't increase linearly with capacity. I think the Veyron's power is pretty much entirely limited by its cooling.

[off_again]

Its also a minimum of 1000BHP. Run one on the high octane stuff you can get here or in Japan and you will see more. Its 1001 PS so just under 1000BHP, but in reality its widely known that its more like 1024PS and more than 1000BHP. So unless someone wants to shove their £1m motor car on a rolling road, we will have to guess.

But as mentioned, the disipation of heat is the big limiting factor. Its got a massive number of radiators and it needs to operate in a variety of different climates. Its relatively easy to get 600+BHP, but once you get to the really big numbers then it starts to be a big issue.

[mat205125]

The specific output of the Veyron is very poor when compared to something like an Evo or a GTR. It should, therefore, be very reliable given how understressed it is. It also allows it to be very usable, docile and driveable around town which 200bhp+/litre turbo charged cars are not renowned for. I believe that the boost pressure is remarkably low (Googled and failed to get a number)

The W16 layout - 4 cylinders long - allows it to be very compact for its capacity and output .... The Veyron is not a monsterously large car given all its performance and stats (Googled and failed to find a dimension comparison link)

[kambites]

Veyron:

Length 4,462 mm
Width 1,998 mm
Height 1,159 mm


That's about half way between a Gallardo and a Murci. It weighs 200kg more than a Murci though.

Edited by kambites on Wednesday 23 September 12:18

[threesixty]

mat205125 said:

The specific output of the Veyron is very poor when compared to something like an Evo or a GTR. It should, therefore, be very reliable given how understressed it is. It also allows it to be very usable, docile and driveable around town which 200bhp+/litre turbo charged cars are not renowned for. I believe that the boost pressure is remarkably low (Googled and failed to get a number)

The W16 layout - 4 cylinders long - allows it to be very compact for its capacity and output .... The Veyron is not a monsterously large car given all its performance and stats (Googled and failed to find a dimension comparison link)

Indeed.

Also the drive train is probably another limiting factor, quite a few MB Amgs have their torque limited to preserve their drivetrain.

I'd imagine its far easier to build a 1000bhp engine than it is to build a reliable useable drive train for it.

[horton]

kambites said:

Veyron:

Length 4,462 mm
Width 1,998 mm
Height 1,159 mm


That's about half way between a Gallardo and a Murci. It weighs 200kg more than a Murci though.

Edited by kambites on Wednesday 23 September 12:18

I'm shocked - I assumed it was the size of a bus.

[alock]

The turbos are not used to maximise specific output. They are used to shape the power curve. The turbos help boost the low-rev power more than the headline BHP figure suggests.

For everyday comaprisson, go and testdrive a Golf GTI with a 2.0 litre turbo engine producing 100bhp/litre or a BMW 335i with a 3.0 litre twin turbo producing 100bhp/litre. Compare either of these to the power delivery of a Sierra Cosworth or Nissan 300ZX.

[kambites]

They do look surprisingly small if you see one on the road.

[DrTre]

horton said:

kambites said:

Veyron:

Length 4,462 mm
Width 1,998 mm
Height 1,159 mm


That's about half way between a Gallardo and a Murci. It weighs 200kg more than a Murci though.

Edited by kambites on Wednesday 23 September 12:18

I'm shocked - I assumed it was the size of a bus.

I've always admired how small it is. Properly compact. Put in those terms I think it's quite a looker.

[TonyHetherington]

As others have said - it's heat, driveability, and reliability. All of them do not increase linearly with power.

[havoc]

kambites said:

Veyron:

Length 4,462 mm
Width 1,998 mm
Height 1,159 mm


That's about half way between a Gallardo and a Murci. It weighs 200kg more than a Murci though.

Or the same length and height as an NSX, but a little wider (extra 190mm). They've still managed to fit an extra 600+kg of ballast in there somewhere though...

[kambites]

havoc said:

kambites said:

Veyron:

Length 4,462 mm
Width 1,998 mm
Height 1,159 mm


That's about half way between a Gallardo and a Murci. It weighs 200kg more than a Murci though.

Or the same length and height as an NSX, but a little wider (extra 190mm). They've still managed to fit an extra 600+kg of ballast in there somewhere though...

I suppose 19cm is quite a lot, but I really don't know how they got it so heavy. I wonder if there is a denser car on the market?

[900T-R]

kambites said:

That's about half way between a Gallardo and a Murci. It weighs 200kg more than a Murci though.

And that (1,888 kgs) is dry weight. Kerb weight is > 2 tonnes...

[kambites]

900T-R said:

kambites said:

That's about half way between a Gallardo and a Murci. It weighs 200kg more than a Murci though.

And that (1,888 kgs) is dry weight. Kerb weight is > 2 tonnes...

Isn't the weight usually quoted for the Merci (1650ish kg) dry too?

[900T-R]

kambites said:

900T-R said:

kambites said:

That's about half way between a Gallardo and a Murci. It weighs 200kg more than a Murci though.

And that (1,888 kgs) is dry weight. Kerb weight is > 2 tonnes...

Isn't the weight usually quoted for the Merci (1650ish kg) dry too?

The Veyron is the only car I'm aware of for which the factory quoted weight is a dry weight...

[hairykrishna]

alock said:

The turbos are not used to maximise specific output. They are used to shape the power curve. The turbos help boost the low-rev power more than the headline BHP figure suggests.

For everyday comaprisson, go and testdrive a Golf GTI with a 2.0 litre turbo engine producing 100bhp/litre or a BMW 335i with a 3.0 litre twin turbo producing 100bhp/litre. Compare either of these to the power delivery of a Sierra Cosworth or Nissan 300ZX.

This is the main answer I think. It has a flat torque curve at (~900lb.ft!) from 2000rpm.

[kambites]

900T-R said:

kambites said:

900T-R said:

kambites said:

That's about half way between a Gallardo and a Murci. It weighs 200kg more than a Murci though.

And that (1,888 kgs) is dry weight. Kerb weight is > 2 tonnes...

Isn't the weight usually quoted for the Merci (1650ish kg) dry too?

The Veyron is the only car I'm aware of for which the factory quoted weight is a dry weight...

In that case, how to most other manufacturers manage to be quite so optimistic about their quoted weights? Or are they just lying?

[havoc]

Eric - in which case the kerb weight has got to be easily over 2-tonnes, right?


hairy - nice graph...looking at that torque curve if they'd got a transmission to cope it would probably develop c.1100 lb-ft at a peak of around 4,000rpm. That's monster twist!!!

[BrassMan]

hairykrishna said:

Without wanting to slate an impressive engine, that delivery looks very dull.