Bought a car from a trader, problems have arisen...
Discussion
Hello All,
Right, so I picked up my RX-8 on Friday from a trader who assured me that I have a 3 month warranty with him in the event of any problems. Well, problems I have got, but before I go back to him I'd like to know what my rights are and what the best approach is. The problems that I've got are:
1) The self-leveling headlights have stopped working and the light has come on on the dash. The fix is to replace the two sensors, but Mazda wants £900 for the parts alone. There is a DIY fix on the net, but in the first instance I'd like it done properly. This is a problem because the headlamp aim is way off, at night you get a pool of light about 10ft in front of the car. Not safe, not fit for purpose?
2) Whining gearbox. This is (potentially) a little more serious. Unnoticed on the test drive due to the route taken, top gear has a pronounced whine at motorway speeds. Reading the forums, a change of gear oil would be the first step. This is a service item and is due. However, there will be a cost for this, and it may or may not fix the issue. What is the best thing to do here? Take it back and say 'fix it' or try and change the oil and then see?
Any help or advice you have would be greatly appreciated, and thank you in advance.
FF
P.S. After lambasting the RX-8 when Mazda announced it was being killed off, I must eat humble pie as it really is a bloody great car to drive. Comfortable, agile, nice inside, practical (4 up with snowboards through the ski hatch no probs), and I'm really enjoying the drive. Fuel use is appalling, but then I knew that already.
Right, so I picked up my RX-8 on Friday from a trader who assured me that I have a 3 month warranty with him in the event of any problems. Well, problems I have got, but before I go back to him I'd like to know what my rights are and what the best approach is. The problems that I've got are:
1) The self-leveling headlights have stopped working and the light has come on on the dash. The fix is to replace the two sensors, but Mazda wants £900 for the parts alone. There is a DIY fix on the net, but in the first instance I'd like it done properly. This is a problem because the headlamp aim is way off, at night you get a pool of light about 10ft in front of the car. Not safe, not fit for purpose?
2) Whining gearbox. This is (potentially) a little more serious. Unnoticed on the test drive due to the route taken, top gear has a pronounced whine at motorway speeds. Reading the forums, a change of gear oil would be the first step. This is a service item and is due. However, there will be a cost for this, and it may or may not fix the issue. What is the best thing to do here? Take it back and say 'fix it' or try and change the oil and then see?
Any help or advice you have would be greatly appreciated, and thank you in advance.
FF
P.S. After lambasting the RX-8 when Mazda announced it was being killed off, I must eat humble pie as it really is a bloody great car to drive. Comfortable, agile, nice inside, practical (4 up with snowboards through the ski hatch no probs), and I'm really enjoying the drive. Fuel use is appalling, but then I knew that already.
When you say a trader, did you get the car cheap or was it a retail sale ie you paid the full price?
How many miles has it done.
And how cheap did you get the car compared to others the same age/spec?
You will struggle to get anything done re' the slight noise from top gear unless its low mileage and came from a showroom, it wont be covered by any warranty and the cost will be huge to sort it out is it worth it?
How many miles has it done.
And how cheap did you get the car compared to others the same age/spec?
You will struggle to get anything done re' the slight noise from top gear unless its low mileage and came from a showroom, it wont be covered by any warranty and the cost will be huge to sort it out is it worth it?
If the guy is an official trader then yes, i'd say you do have some redress. A mate has had a similar issue.
Firstly go back to the trader and ask them to put these issues right and see how you go. If you get no joy, and you have Legal cover on any of your insurance policies (House etc), ring them up for advice of the next step. It isn't easy but there are steps you can take.
If he is a trader, then Sold-as-Seen doesn't apply regardless.
Firstly go back to the trader and ask them to put these issues right and see how you go. If you get no joy, and you have Legal cover on any of your insurance policies (House etc), ring them up for advice of the next step. It isn't easy but there are steps you can take.
If he is a trader, then Sold-as-Seen doesn't apply regardless.
Edited by Fire99 on Thursday 7th October 09:36
Tell us more about the deal.
You say trader rather than dealer , bit of a difference as traders usually don't sell cars "retail"
Could have been a friend of a friend type arrangement and what he meant by a verbal 3 month warranty was engine and gearbox only.
Complaining about self leveling headlights are why traders don't and shouldn't sell cars to the public.
You say trader rather than dealer , bit of a difference as traders usually don't sell cars "retail"
Could have been a friend of a friend type arrangement and what he meant by a verbal 3 month warranty was engine and gearbox only.
Complaining about self leveling headlights are why traders don't and shouldn't sell cars to the public.
Thanks for the replies.
As I understand it, he buys and sells cars for a living. He doesn't have a showroom. For the record, he seems like an honest chap and a nice bloke to boot and I've no reason to suspect any deliberate foul play.
In answer to some of the questions:
Car has done 58K
Paid about the going rate I think
I'm worried about my options and although none of the issues affecting the car are show-stoppers in terms of driving, they could be potentially very expensive to fix and in the case of the lights it does rather seem that without these working properly the car isn't really fit for purpose.
I guess I'll just have to call him and see, but any further advice is welcome as I want to be fully ready when I do call.
Many thanks,
FF
As I understand it, he buys and sells cars for a living. He doesn't have a showroom. For the record, he seems like an honest chap and a nice bloke to boot and I've no reason to suspect any deliberate foul play.
In answer to some of the questions:
Car has done 58K
Paid about the going rate I think
I'm worried about my options and although none of the issues affecting the car are show-stoppers in terms of driving, they could be potentially very expensive to fix and in the case of the lights it does rather seem that without these working properly the car isn't really fit for purpose.
I guess I'll just have to call him and see, but any further advice is welcome as I want to be fully ready when I do call.
Many thanks,
FF
The self-levelling headlights is a serious safety issue and the car should not have been sold like that. You don't say how old the car is, but there is an acknowledged fault on older RX8s with the sensors and they should be replaced with updated units - mine went when the car was just out of warranty and Mazda paid 75% of the (eyewatering!) cost. I can't imagine that the car would pass an MOT as is, so you should be straight onto the trader to get this fixed at his expense - nice bloke or not, he's running a business and has certain responsibilities.
Gearbox whine is possibly less clear cut. To be honest I'd say your first step should be to raise the issue with the trader and see what he says; a general principle is that you have to let the seller attempt to rectify any problems before getting a third party involved. Even if he tells you to bugger off, you would then have it on record that the fault was notified within days of picking up the car which gives you a much stronger position in any potential future claim.
Gearbox whine is possibly less clear cut. To be honest I'd say your first step should be to raise the issue with the trader and see what he says; a general principle is that you have to let the seller attempt to rectify any problems before getting a third party involved. Even if he tells you to bugger off, you would then have it on record that the fault was notified within days of picking up the car which gives you a much stronger position in any potential future claim.
Right, just spoke to the trader, and the call went kinda as expected:
Me: <outlines issues whilst being reasonable>
Him: 'If it were an engine fault then yes, by law I have to deal with it. But given the age of the vehicle etc, and the price you paid, not really a lot that I can do'
Me: But what about Sale of Goods etc? If it were a small issue I wouldn't be bothering you...
Him: Get it checked out in the first instance by getting the fault codes scanned, then come back to me...
On the subject of the gearbox whine, he simply stated 'they all do that'. I'm skeptical.
Ideally, I'd just like the car fixed and ready to roll. If we were talking about rattling trim or other non-essential issues then I would be OK with that. But as rightly stated, it isn't safe to drive at the mo because of the lamps, and the gear issue may or may not be a big problem.
What is the next step?
Me: <outlines issues whilst being reasonable>
Him: 'If it were an engine fault then yes, by law I have to deal with it. But given the age of the vehicle etc, and the price you paid, not really a lot that I can do'
Me: But what about Sale of Goods etc? If it were a small issue I wouldn't be bothering you...
Him: Get it checked out in the first instance by getting the fault codes scanned, then come back to me...
On the subject of the gearbox whine, he simply stated 'they all do that'. I'm skeptical.
Ideally, I'd just like the car fixed and ready to roll. If we were talking about rattling trim or other non-essential issues then I would be OK with that. But as rightly stated, it isn't safe to drive at the mo because of the lamps, and the gear issue may or may not be a big problem.
What is the next step?
edo said:
Find out what the gearbox fault is (if any).
Call him back with diagnosis and costs to repair the two issues.
He'll tell you they're too expensive and not required.
You'll end up paying yourself.
That sounds bad. I think I know what the problem is (headlamps = sensors on the suspension, gearbox = wear or in need of an oil change). I know the costs too (headlamps = £900 from Mazda or free DIY fix, gearbox = new oil and hope for the best).Call him back with diagnosis and costs to repair the two issues.
He'll tell you they're too expensive and not required.
You'll end up paying yourself.
I would think that on the issue of the 'box, he may well be able to say 'c'mon mate, it's an old car and has done nearly 60k, it's not going to be brand new'. On the issue of the lights however, the car isn't really drivable like it is (OK, so I'm pushing it here, but if it were my girlfriend driving and not me I wouldn't want her to drive the car in its current state).
Do you really think that I have no chance?
FF
A car must meet the standards a reasonable person would expect to be satisfactory, taking into account how it was described by the seller, how much it cost, the age, history and mileage
This covers factors including the appearance, integrity, safety and durability of the car
It should be free from defects, unless pointed out prior to purchase
Hes obviously trying it on in the first instance. Stick to your guns, go and visit him in person be factual and state that you will do everything possible to either get it fixed at his expense or a refund.
This covers factors including the appearance, integrity, safety and durability of the car
It should be free from defects, unless pointed out prior to purchase
Hes obviously trying it on in the first instance. Stick to your guns, go and visit him in person be factual and state that you will do everything possible to either get it fixed at his expense or a refund.
Edited by UncappedTag on Thursday 7th October 12:02
Depending on the price of the car, expecting the "full" fix for the lights may be a bit ambitous. However, if there is a cheaper option available which will get them to MOT standard then a decent seller should at least try to help, lights are, after all, a pretty essential part of the car!
As for the gearbox, if it is a service issue then it is down to you, and if it is something they do indeed "all do" then it is just a sign then it is worn in line with the typical wear rate on the car and not a "failure" (you have to remember that used cars are cheap becuase they are partly worn and some components may well be at the endof their service life). However if it has actually prematurely failed and doesn't work at all then it is a different matter.
As for the gearbox, if it is a service issue then it is down to you, and if it is something they do indeed "all do" then it is just a sign then it is worn in line with the typical wear rate on the car and not a "failure" (you have to remember that used cars are cheap becuase they are partly worn and some components may well be at the endof their service life). However if it has actually prematurely failed and doesn't work at all then it is a different matter.
Facefirst said:
Do you really think that I have no chance?
FF
Not necessarily but get some professional advice. I.e. Legal advice so you know exactly where you stand.FF
If the trader (which i'm assuming is a normal dealer without a premises) is registered as a business then the car has to be sold in reasonable condition and comparable to how it's been advertised.
A safety issue is a safety issue and i'd wager he'll be responsible for that.
The gearbox issue is less clear-cut but not impossible to resolve.
Get advice and proceed as they suggest. Bottom line.
Put in your post code in the below.
You should have a local trading standards who can answer your questions
http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/advice/problems...
But Fair wear and tear is not considered to be a fault. Headlights defo his problem.
You should have a local trading standards who can answer your questions
http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/advice/problems...
But Fair wear and tear is not considered to be a fault. Headlights defo his problem.
Edited by UncappedTag on Thursday 7th October 12:11
confused_buyer said:
Depending on the price of the car, expecting the "full" fix for the lights may be a bit ambitous.
I don't understand how the price of the car is relevant. If the lights are faulty, then the seller needs to fix them.It's also quite bizarre how the seller is asking the buyer to come back with fault codes! It's not your responsibility to do that, you're just a normal person off the street buying a car as far as he's concerned.
Make sure you document everything OP. I'd tell the seller that the lights are faulty, you're not in a position to diagnose it yourself, but you want him to fix them. Be polite, but firm. Don't jump in and starting shouting the law as you'll just get his back up. You might be expected to contribute a little, as if he replaces the sensors then you'll be getting a brand new component which wouldn't be expected on a used car. Betterment.
I had an issue with a car I bought from an Arthur Daley a couple of years ago, and we ended up with him paying two-thirds, and me one-third, for a £900 component.
Good luck.
If there is a free diy fix for the lights, why dont you just get that done then? Or show him the details and get him to do it.
And does anyone really think a used car is not safe just because the headlight adjuster is not working? Really, that is ridiculous.
Look into what the best specialist oil to use for the diff and gearbox and ask him to pay for it eg Royal Purple syncroamx see if that helps
http://www.royalpurple.com/
And does anyone really think a used car is not safe just because the headlight adjuster is not working? Really, that is ridiculous.
Look into what the best specialist oil to use for the diff and gearbox and ask him to pay for it eg Royal Purple syncroamx see if that helps
http://www.royalpurple.com/
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