LPG Conversion...to do OR not to do?
Discussion
My apologies if this question has already been asked...secondly please don't ask why as it is a long and pointless story...
lastly, to my dear pistonheads that may have had any of their vehicles converted to LPG,
was there any difference in performance or is that dependant on the quality of the conversion?
what are the advantages and disadvantages you personally experienced?
And, what you or wouldn't you do it again?
(I'm being pressured into having one of our Cayennes converted)
lastly, to my dear pistonheads that may have had any of their vehicles converted to LPG,
was there any difference in performance or is that dependant on the quality of the conversion?
what are the advantages and disadvantages you personally experienced?
And, what you or wouldn't you do it again?
(I'm being pressured into having one of our Cayennes converted)
I bought a 4.0 P38 Range Rover with a multipoint system, and it's amazing. Yes you may have to travel a few miles out of your way to get fuel, but if I told you that garage 2 miles away was selling unleaded for 60p a litre, you wouldn't mind at all.
My car was already converted, but I made sure I bought one with a multipoint system. I owned a discovery previously with a single injection system, and it had a habit of backfiring and blowing the MAF meter apart. On the disco I could feel a slight loss of power on LPG, and would flick back to petrol if I needed to overtake quickly. With my current car you honestly can't tell the difference between LPG and petrol, so I run it on LPG all the time.
The only downside I can think of is that I can't take the car on the Channel tunnel, but it's fine to use the ferry, so no real drama.
My car was already converted, but I made sure I bought one with a multipoint system. I owned a discovery previously with a single injection system, and it had a habit of backfiring and blowing the MAF meter apart. On the disco I could feel a slight loss of power on LPG, and would flick back to petrol if I needed to overtake quickly. With my current car you honestly can't tell the difference between LPG and petrol, so I run it on LPG all the time.
The only downside I can think of is that I can't take the car on the Channel tunnel, but it's fine to use the ferry, so no real drama.
owned 4 LPG cars over the last 10 years.
had 2 that were basic mixer systems and 2 that were singing dancing PRINS systems.
the basic ones lost more economy as a percentage of the petrol MPG than the PRINS ( ~ 25% against < 10% on the prins ). performance was pretty much indistinguishable from running on petrol and with something like a Cayenne you won't notice at all.
Fuel is available all over and there are plenty of LPG waypoint overlays that tell you where and there is a word doc you can download to keep in the glovebox if you are going somewhere away from usual routes.
I would say to make sure you find out what your local installer sells, no point in having a BRC system if your local bloke can't service/tune it.
Would I have another? Absolutely, only reason I'm in DERV at the min was due to a nightmare set of personal circumstances and huge lack of time when I needed a car.
had 2 that were basic mixer systems and 2 that were singing dancing PRINS systems.
the basic ones lost more economy as a percentage of the petrol MPG than the PRINS ( ~ 25% against < 10% on the prins ). performance was pretty much indistinguishable from running on petrol and with something like a Cayenne you won't notice at all.
Fuel is available all over and there are plenty of LPG waypoint overlays that tell you where and there is a word doc you can download to keep in the glovebox if you are going somewhere away from usual routes.
I would say to make sure you find out what your local installer sells, no point in having a BRC system if your local bloke can't service/tune it.
Would I have another? Absolutely, only reason I'm in DERV at the min was due to a nightmare set of personal circumstances and huge lack of time when I needed a car.
I converted an 2002 e46 330i and it was great.
The major drawback was the small 45l tank I fitted and if I do it again I will get a bigger tank and sacrifice boot space or getter a bigger car like a 5 series. In a Cayenne you should be able to squeeze in something decent and get good driving range. My fill ups were very frequent because of the poor tank choice.. I wish they could make the petrol tank 1/4 the size and stick a tank down there with it...
In my opinion LPG is best done on powerful engines so you get to be smug about your fuels costs and enjoy a decent engine. My 330i was costing the same in fuels as 320d so I felt very smug indeed. The power drop on LPG was not noticeable on an engine like that unless you really looked for it.
Reliability/issues none really apart from initial set-up and teething issues:- in the beginning we had issues with the car stalling when in slow traffic as the Prins kit's ECU didn't have as good a anti-stall system as the Bosch ECU that is standard with the car (when you run on LPG you use the kits ECU and when on petrol you use the cars ECU - that is my understanding of how it works but I may be wrong). When I say anti-stall I mean the ability to put the car in 1st or 2nd and then let the clutch out gently and without using the throttle the car creeps forward and does not stall. On LPG it wouldn't do this as easily - it needed some fine tuning and was better but never as good as when on petrol - not a major gripe though and I learnt how to drive around it easily enough.
Economy: The cars OBC told me my average on petrol was 25mg which tied up with my tank to tank tests on petrol. On LPG I was getting 21mpg (tank to tank check). It only used petrol for a short time upon start up - negligible amount - some people talk of it using lots of petrol if you do many short trips - not on mine though - perhaps on a rubbish system it does..
IMO use a good, experienced fitter with the best kit available that has been used on other cars like yours - most of the complaints you see on the net about LPG seem to originate from poor kits or bad installation to cars that are already in bad shape or unreliable before the kit was fitted.
The major drawback was the small 45l tank I fitted and if I do it again I will get a bigger tank and sacrifice boot space or getter a bigger car like a 5 series. In a Cayenne you should be able to squeeze in something decent and get good driving range. My fill ups were very frequent because of the poor tank choice.. I wish they could make the petrol tank 1/4 the size and stick a tank down there with it...
In my opinion LPG is best done on powerful engines so you get to be smug about your fuels costs and enjoy a decent engine. My 330i was costing the same in fuels as 320d so I felt very smug indeed. The power drop on LPG was not noticeable on an engine like that unless you really looked for it.
Reliability/issues none really apart from initial set-up and teething issues:- in the beginning we had issues with the car stalling when in slow traffic as the Prins kit's ECU didn't have as good a anti-stall system as the Bosch ECU that is standard with the car (when you run on LPG you use the kits ECU and when on petrol you use the cars ECU - that is my understanding of how it works but I may be wrong). When I say anti-stall I mean the ability to put the car in 1st or 2nd and then let the clutch out gently and without using the throttle the car creeps forward and does not stall. On LPG it wouldn't do this as easily - it needed some fine tuning and was better but never as good as when on petrol - not a major gripe though and I learnt how to drive around it easily enough.
Economy: The cars OBC told me my average on petrol was 25mg which tied up with my tank to tank tests on petrol. On LPG I was getting 21mpg (tank to tank check). It only used petrol for a short time upon start up - negligible amount - some people talk of it using lots of petrol if you do many short trips - not on mine though - perhaps on a rubbish system it does..
IMO use a good, experienced fitter with the best kit available that has been used on other cars like yours - most of the complaints you see on the net about LPG seem to originate from poor kits or bad installation to cars that are already in bad shape or unreliable before the kit was fitted.
How many miles per year are you doing? Do the reduced fuel costs mean that you will get a pay back in a suitable timescale?
I looked at this a good few years ago when the tax differential between petrol and LPG was greater and it needed about 40000 miles to pay back, which for me at that point was under 2 years.
I looked at this a good few years ago when the tax differential between petrol and LPG was greater and it needed about 40000 miles to pay back, which for me at that point was under 2 years.
Thanks guys...the Cayenne will be doing anywhere between 20k-40k miles per year as it is used to travel between Glasgow, Manchester & London.
...thank you very much for some of the indepth information, if you could recommend a company in or around Glasgow, Manchester or London, I would be grateful. Many thanks
...thank you very much for some of the indepth information, if you could recommend a company in or around Glasgow, Manchester or London, I would be grateful. Many thanks
Hi, I had a cayenne s 4.5 converted at Worsley Autogas near Manchester, had the system fitted same day and they lend you a car. Had a top quality BRC system fitted, the switch to change fuel used fitted in the cup holder near the center front arm rest, 70 litter tank fitted in the spare wheel well with a false floor to raise it by an inch.
Gave a range of 150-200 miles on LPG alone depending on driving style, was getting on a run early 20s, on LPG equates to 35mpg +, not bad for a two ton 345bhp V8! Would start using petrol and switch after about 10 seconds to LPG and you would not know the difference in performance at all!
Bought my system through the Greenfuel company who finance it, was around £2k I think, well worth it.
Gave a range of 150-200 miles on LPG alone depending on driving style, was getting on a run early 20s, on LPG equates to 35mpg +, not bad for a two ton 345bhp V8! Would start using petrol and switch after about 10 seconds to LPG and you would not know the difference in performance at all!
Bought my system through the Greenfuel company who finance it, was around £2k I think, well worth it.
Edited by scam73 on Thursday 25th November 16:34
I can recommend http://www.afs.uk.com - speak with Rob Carnell. They do allot of high end machinery and are no nonsense guys with great customer service.
We sold our '97 Jeep Cherokee 4.0 I6 after 5 years of ownership recently. The system installed was a sequential injection by McLaren/AG - very similar to the Prins system. Cost when I had it fitted was £2.5k and we had no end of problems with the install and it didn't get fixed until McLaren agreed to take it off them and hang onto it for 2 weeks but after that I had the rest of the 5 years without anything major going wrong.
Performance was only slightly down on petrol but whatever consumption figures get touted the petrol used to get the engine up to temp seems to be forgotten. This is set in the seqential system ECU and knocks the nice figures the installer will mention.
Around here LPG costs from 70-80p/litre not 60p.
Would I do it again? No. At least not for a daily driver. If I fitted a simple mixer system to a small bloc Chevy - then maybe.
Several reasons why not:-
1. Your car is now non-std and a most garages will have nothing to do with the LPG system if you do have a problem. If the installer is local and kosher then you have that one covered.
2. Finding an LPG station. Tank range with our underfloor tank was 180 miles so we needed to know where we could fill up on a run (the replacement pet tank had only 20l capacity) that became a PITA.
3. I replaced the Cherokee with a 2.5 litre TD5 LR 90. This is cheaper to run on forcourt dieso than the Cherokee ever was (29 MPG - but doesn't have the noise of a straight 6)
Performance was only slightly down on petrol but whatever consumption figures get touted the petrol used to get the engine up to temp seems to be forgotten. This is set in the seqential system ECU and knocks the nice figures the installer will mention.
Around here LPG costs from 70-80p/litre not 60p.
Would I do it again? No. At least not for a daily driver. If I fitted a simple mixer system to a small bloc Chevy - then maybe.
Several reasons why not:-
1. Your car is now non-std and a most garages will have nothing to do with the LPG system if you do have a problem. If the installer is local and kosher then you have that one covered.
2. Finding an LPG station. Tank range with our underfloor tank was 180 miles so we needed to know where we could fill up on a run (the replacement pet tank had only 20l capacity) that became a PITA.
3. I replaced the Cherokee with a 2.5 litre TD5 LR 90. This is cheaper to run on forcourt dieso than the Cherokee ever was (29 MPG - but doesn't have the noise of a straight 6)
I've just upgraded a rather old (10 year) single point system on the Landcruiser to a newfangled multi-point one with all the bells and whistles.
The old system lost about 15% efficiency over petrol, haven't run the new one long enough to work it out yet, but it runs a LOT smoother than the old one, so I'm expecting good things.
For a big engine cruiser, I wholly recommend conversions.
The old system lost about 15% efficiency over petrol, haven't run the new one long enough to work it out yet, but it runs a LOT smoother than the old one, so I'm expecting good things.
For a big engine cruiser, I wholly recommend conversions.
Had my mustang done (4.0ltr V6 one baby stang) and my current RX300 both converted to LPG
Have noticed the prices starting to creep up too (was 40p/ltr when I first got the mussy converted) to now 60p/ltr
Both had the latest version of the Prins system the mussy had a 60ltr tank and the RX has a 90ltr underslung tank
No problems at all with the systems other than normal servicing and maintenance. No power loss and no big ball ache finding stations in Manchester, morrisons have them on their forecourts and if you have a local gas supplier you "may" be able to get LPG a bit cheaper if it's on a prepay card which usually saves around 17.5% of the price....
Only thing that annoys me is the time it can take to fill up
and the fact that even when petrol prices drop the LPG price doesn't....
Plan on getting a V8 mustang in the next 12 months or so and LPG'ing that one too
Have noticed the prices starting to creep up too (was 40p/ltr when I first got the mussy converted) to now 60p/ltr
Both had the latest version of the Prins system the mussy had a 60ltr tank and the RX has a 90ltr underslung tank
No problems at all with the systems other than normal servicing and maintenance. No power loss and no big ball ache finding stations in Manchester, morrisons have them on their forecourts and if you have a local gas supplier you "may" be able to get LPG a bit cheaper if it's on a prepay card which usually saves around 17.5% of the price....
Only thing that annoys me is the time it can take to fill up
and the fact that even when petrol prices drop the LPG price doesn't....Plan on getting a V8 mustang in the next 12 months or so and LPG'ing that one too
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