Mini Cooper or Puma
Discussion
I've just got a new job and need a sensible company car. My criteria are:
I don't want to loose more than a couple of grand in a couple of years ownership
The insurance can't be too steep, so about group 12 is my limit.
I could spend up to £12k, but £8k - £12k would be preferable
I will be doing a few miles, so it's got to be quite comfortable.
In summary - as you'll have guessed from the title - I'm thinking either a new mini cooper or a 1.7 Puma. Does anyone have any experience of these and am I missing anything else obvious?
Thanks,
Will.
I don't want to loose more than a couple of grand in a couple of years ownership
The insurance can't be too steep, so about group 12 is my limit.
I could spend up to £12k, but £8k - £12k would be preferable
I will be doing a few miles, so it's got to be quite comfortable.
In summary - as you'll have guessed from the title - I'm thinking either a new mini cooper or a 1.7 Puma. Does anyone have any experience of these and am I missing anything else obvious?
Thanks,
Will.
You may need to re-think the budget if you're going for a Cooper. They can be had for 12k, but you really need to add a few options to 'em. Once I'd looked at one and specced it up a bit, it was pushing 16k.
Check here for a car builder - under "take me to your dealer" / "made to measure"
Dan
Check here for a car builder - under "take me to your dealer" / "made to measure"
Dan
Mini TLC warranty is a tempting option... Puma is still one of the best drives in it's class... and even EVO recognise that fact (they recommend the Hyundai Coupe as you can no longer buy the Puma from new).
On the Puma, watch for boy-racer abuse.. makes sure it's been serviced on the button (if applicable) and remember they came with 3 year warranties; the balance of which is transferable. Parts and servicing are pretty cheap, but panels are quite expensive to replace.
If it doesn't feel quite right, then check the front tyre pressures or alignment - they're very sensitive to both. I owned a Puma for a bit, which was very reliable, and a good drive... even at motorway speeds. I drove a Mini Cooper and felt it to be a bit lifeless in comparison... but that's just my opinion.
In your budget, you should be able to get a Limited Edition - either the "Black" or the "Thunder" - both are fully loaded and have leather too. Don't buy anything other than a 1.7 - it's not worth it.
As for losing money - they're both cars... and in that respect they are both depreciating assets. You will lose money on either... as to how much - I can only guess.
On the Puma, watch for boy-racer abuse.. makes sure it's been serviced on the button (if applicable) and remember they came with 3 year warranties; the balance of which is transferable. Parts and servicing are pretty cheap, but panels are quite expensive to replace.
If it doesn't feel quite right, then check the front tyre pressures or alignment - they're very sensitive to both. I owned a Puma for a bit, which was very reliable, and a good drive... even at motorway speeds. I drove a Mini Cooper and felt it to be a bit lifeless in comparison... but that's just my opinion.
In your budget, you should be able to get a Limited Edition - either the "Black" or the "Thunder" - both are fully loaded and have leather too. Don't buy anything other than a 1.7 - it's not worth it.
As for losing money - they're both cars... and in that respect they are both depreciating assets. You will lose money on either... as to how much - I can only guess.
I bought a Puma about 2 months ago, 1999, 1.7, fully loaded, 12k, cost 7500 with 1500 p/x for my wife's old Clio.
I now use it to commute to work, about 75 miles a day, M25 (35mph) and B roads (70mph), and it's certainly a capable and fun car. The zetec engine has variable cam timing, and pulls strong from low revs, revs high smoothly, but doesn't sound particularly good. Handling is excellent, as espoused by EVO, steering and suspension just right. Brakes just about OK, but it does have ABS. Earlier models come fitted with P6000 tyres which are crap. Like driving on 4 nylon rollers. Later ones have Goodyear Eagles.
As Podie said, watch the tyre pressures - it's very sensitive. It does tramline very badly as well - worse than any TVR I've driven. I now notice how badly grooved the A322 and A3 are!
Looks wise I prefer the Puma (not a fan of retro cars), the Cooper is a bit bloated. It's nice and snug inside - I even like sitting in the back (not when I'm driving, of course).
Problems and regrets?
None yet - but still missing my TVR which I had to sell thsi year :-(
Dr C
I now use it to commute to work, about 75 miles a day, M25 (35mph) and B roads (70mph), and it's certainly a capable and fun car. The zetec engine has variable cam timing, and pulls strong from low revs, revs high smoothly, but doesn't sound particularly good. Handling is excellent, as espoused by EVO, steering and suspension just right. Brakes just about OK, but it does have ABS. Earlier models come fitted with P6000 tyres which are crap. Like driving on 4 nylon rollers. Later ones have Goodyear Eagles.
As Podie said, watch the tyre pressures - it's very sensitive. It does tramline very badly as well - worse than any TVR I've driven. I now notice how badly grooved the A322 and A3 are!
Looks wise I prefer the Puma (not a fan of retro cars), the Cooper is a bit bloated. It's nice and snug inside - I even like sitting in the back (not when I'm driving, of course).
Problems and regrets?
None yet - but still missing my TVR which I had to sell thsi year :-(
Dr C
Puma shouldn't sound too bad... hmm...? 
Dr Chuff.. make sure you've got the plastic box attached to the bonnet... never found it that bad noise wise. Granted it's not TVR, but it's not bad!
If you go for a Puma, make sure it has air con AND electric mirrors and heated front screen - those are THE options to have... and desirable at resale.
Dr Chuff - if you think the Puma tramlines, you should try the Fiesta Zetec-S (old shape)... basically a Puma with a different body (and the 1.6 engine)... now THAT knew how to tramline...!
Dr Chuff.. make sure you've got the plastic box attached to the bonnet... never found it that bad noise wise. Granted it's not TVR, but it's not bad! If you go for a Puma, make sure it has air con AND electric mirrors and heated front screen - those are THE options to have... and desirable at resale.
Dr Chuff - if you think the Puma tramlines, you should try the Fiesta Zetec-S (old shape)... basically a Puma with a different body (and the 1.6 engine)... now THAT knew how to tramline...!
Roadrunner said: If you don't want to loose money then don't buy new. A specced up 17k mini cooper now has a trade in value of 10k. The Puma will drop even more from new.
Check out Autotrader and look at the Puma Thunder's.. last of the line, fully loaded and several have small mileage on them. I did 12k on mine in 9 months.. and was noticeably better after 10k...
Captain Muppet said: Have you considered an Integra Type R? Should poo all over a Puma or Mini and the second hand prices are well within your budget.
Good thought - might be a bit hard though for everyday use... especially if doing serious mileage.
Which reminds me... Puma seats are NOT the last word in comfort..!
Re - Puma tramlining.
66k miles in mine over 2 and a bit years and I never experienced this. It ran Michellins on the front - cant remember which sort but they were spot on.
Fine on the Motorway, 40mpg and an absolute hoot.
Downsides - very small boot, quality issues such as rattly windows (both sides) eratic self adjusting headlight, had to return it after 150 miles due to ECU being knacked.
Still loved it though but for 12k you can get a Civic Type R (my current steed) - loads faster and good on the motorway (better than the ITR)
66k miles in mine over 2 and a bit years and I never experienced this. It ran Michellins on the front - cant remember which sort but they were spot on.
Fine on the Motorway, 40mpg and an absolute hoot.
Downsides - very small boot, quality issues such as rattly windows (both sides) eratic self adjusting headlight, had to return it after 150 miles due to ECU being knacked.
Still loved it though but for 12k you can get a Civic Type R (my current steed) - loads faster and good on the motorway (better than the ITR)
Roadrunner said: If you don't want to loose money then don't buy new. A specced up 17k mini cooper now has a trade in value of 10k. The Puma will drop even more from new.
A friend has just traded his year old cooper against a Cooper S, he lost £500 in that year, not bad for a years motoring, people who lose 7k are being seriously ripped off!
Captain Muppet said: Have you considered an Integra Type R? Should poo all over a Puma or Mini and the second hand prices are well within your budget.
My problem is insurance though. I'm 24 living in London, driving 7 years as a named driver on various policies, but I've never had a policy in my own name. I'm expecting to pay up to about £1200 - £1400 for something that's a little bit of fun, but can't afford much more. Hence Puma and Cooper rather than Type R and 172.
Simple answer - Cooper.
Reason: Handles (even) better than the Puma, less dated (although may date quicker), much better residuals, TLC package, style / interior (not much space in the back though), basically just such a good rive and a bit more modern than the Puma, which has finished its life still a bloody good little car. Mini is basically the successor if you accept that its not really a supermini, more of a small coupe with a less curved hatch. if you get my meaning. Anyway, try them both and you'll see what I mean...
Reason: Handles (even) better than the Puma, less dated (although may date quicker), much better residuals, TLC package, style / interior (not much space in the back though), basically just such a good rive and a bit more modern than the Puma, which has finished its life still a bloody good little car. Mini is basically the successor if you accept that its not really a supermini, more of a small coupe with a less curved hatch. if you get my meaning. Anyway, try them both and you'll see what I mean...
If you can go to 13K you could get a Clio Cup, I've ordered one and they are great!! That said they are a stripped out 172 so insurance won't be funny in your situation.
I just don't 'get' the mini. I drove one when looking at the Clio and whilst it was quite quick, it was an 'S', it was well... Boring. Its looks a tad tarty outside, that can be sorted by the right colour, black. But inside it was just to trendy, in a couple of years it'll look stupid and the back seats are hopeless, not to much of an issue until you need them. The Clio is less in your face as a statement but much more fun IMHO.
I would be go with the Puma, you can get quite a late one, they seem well rated and values hold up.
I just don't 'get' the mini. I drove one when looking at the Clio and whilst it was quite quick, it was an 'S', it was well... Boring. Its looks a tad tarty outside, that can be sorted by the right colour, black. But inside it was just to trendy, in a couple of years it'll look stupid and the back seats are hopeless, not to much of an issue until you need them. The Clio is less in your face as a statement but much more fun IMHO.
I would be go with the Puma, you can get quite a late one, they seem well rated and values hold up.
I wonder how long people are test driving Cooper S's for? The reason I say is that this car is a slow burner. I too was not overly impressed by the initial test drive, but we ordered it anyway safe in the knowledge that it could be easily sold for list or more if we didn't like it. 2k miles down the line... bloody hell! What a great little car. You really have to throw it at corners (especially on the 17"s) before it starts to dance - this is the beuaty of it. It doesn't assault you with constant chattering from the steering (although the ride is pretty firm) until you go for it and then, boy does it come alive. Same with the engine. Actually seems a touch languid until (a) its run in (b) you gun it. I've driven an old shape 172, and while it was bloody good fun up to a point it just felt unrefined and one dimensional - its party trick was going fast and not a lot more. The Mini CS has a more rounded character. The final nail in the coffin ultimately is 65% retained residuals after 3yrs / 36k, as new cars go only ultra-desirables such as the M3, SL55 and the like can touch this....
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