PM opens door to millions
Discussion
From the Sun:
PM opens door to millions
TONY Blair last night opened Britain’s doors to millions of immigrants from former Iron Curtain countries.
The PM ruled they will be able to live and work in Britain when their countries join the EU.
Home Office chiefs yesterday claimed the immigrants will BOOST Britain’s economy. But most other EU states are not letting them in.
France, Germany, Belgium, Portugal, Spain, Luxembourg and Austria have all refused to accept them — insisting they could be a drain.
Britain is among a handful of EU nations willing to give people from the new countries the same rights as those in current member states.
Only Ireland, the Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden, and Greece will welcome the migrants like Britain.
Last night Immigration Watch UK railed against the move.
A spokesman said: “This misses the point entirely. This island is already heavily overcrowded.
“The real question, therefore, is whether this very small economic benefit is worth the social cost of what is developing into mass immigration. Most people think not.”
Eight former Iron Curtain states will become EU members in January 2004 — Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovenia, Slovakia, Hungary, Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia.
The Mediterranean islands of Cyprus and Malta will join at the same time and get the same rights.
All 10 have dole queues adding up to millions of people. Critics fear many will be drawn to the UK.
But Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said last night: “It will attract workers we need in key sectors and is part of our managed migration agenda.”
No10 said the move will STOP the new EU citizens flooding here illegally. Last year 68,000 asylum seekers came to Britain.
Ministers said the migrants will lose their right to work here if there is a sudden recession.
Poland’s PM Leszek Miller — who has three million jobless citizens — greeted the move, saying: “This is a very positive decision. It is an important and symbolic gesture.”
But three out of four voters believe Britain is a soft touch on immigration, according to a Channel Four survey.
IMMIGRANTS earn £404 a week on average compared to £338 for native Britons — but suffer higher unemployment rates, Home Office figures show.
PM opens door to millions
TONY Blair last night opened Britain’s doors to millions of immigrants from former Iron Curtain countries.
The PM ruled they will be able to live and work in Britain when their countries join the EU.
Home Office chiefs yesterday claimed the immigrants will BOOST Britain’s economy. But most other EU states are not letting them in.
France, Germany, Belgium, Portugal, Spain, Luxembourg and Austria have all refused to accept them — insisting they could be a drain.
Britain is among a handful of EU nations willing to give people from the new countries the same rights as those in current member states.
Only Ireland, the Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden, and Greece will welcome the migrants like Britain.
Last night Immigration Watch UK railed against the move.
A spokesman said: “This misses the point entirely. This island is already heavily overcrowded.
“The real question, therefore, is whether this very small economic benefit is worth the social cost of what is developing into mass immigration. Most people think not.”
Eight former Iron Curtain states will become EU members in January 2004 — Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovenia, Slovakia, Hungary, Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia.
The Mediterranean islands of Cyprus and Malta will join at the same time and get the same rights.
All 10 have dole queues adding up to millions of people. Critics fear many will be drawn to the UK.
But Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said last night: “It will attract workers we need in key sectors and is part of our managed migration agenda.”
No10 said the move will STOP the new EU citizens flooding here illegally. Last year 68,000 asylum seekers came to Britain.
Ministers said the migrants will lose their right to work here if there is a sudden recession.
Poland’s PM Leszek Miller — who has three million jobless citizens — greeted the move, saying: “This is a very positive decision. It is an important and symbolic gesture.”
But three out of four voters believe Britain is a soft touch on immigration, according to a Channel Four survey.
IMMIGRANTS earn £404 a week on average compared to £338 for native Britons — but suffer higher unemployment rates, Home Office figures show.
The veracity of economic data published in The Sun cannot be relied upon of course.
The issue really is not whether these people will be a drain on our economy. The issue is that this island is grotesquely over-crowded in all the parts where there is earning potential to be found. There are insufficient or inadequate roads, houses, doctors, policemen, teachers and public-transport solutions to fulfil demand from the existing population. So stick another million east European immigrants into the pot, on top of the milluion or so we're likely to see claiming assylum or migrating for economic reasons from non-EU countries over the next 5-10 years and something will have to give.
The issue really is not whether these people will be a drain on our economy. The issue is that this island is grotesquely over-crowded in all the parts where there is earning potential to be found. There are insufficient or inadequate roads, houses, doctors, policemen, teachers and public-transport solutions to fulfil demand from the existing population. So stick another million east European immigrants into the pot, on top of the milluion or so we're likely to see claiming assylum or migrating for economic reasons from non-EU countries over the next 5-10 years and something will have to give.
IMHO we should be looking after our own first, before helping others... but a brief stroll round the sandwich bars of London tells a story.
Half of them are populated by people of non-UK origin... perhaps these immigrants are the only ones prepared to work for peanuts... hence might actually be providing a useful service?
Not a good idea to open the floodgates though...
Half of them are populated by people of non-UK origin... perhaps these immigrants are the only ones prepared to work for peanuts... hence might actually be providing a useful service?
Not a good idea to open the floodgates though...
Don said:
derestrictor said:
Bring me my broadsword...
And my cross of gold as a talisman?
Weeell, Sir Don - let's see; the individual in question invented the seed drill and wrote the compelling tome, 'Horse Hoeing Husbandary' in 1733 but being immortal, relaunched his career in the late sixties (1960s, that is) with the seminal 'Too Old To Rock 'n' Roll (Too Young To die)'.
The stupendous lyricism from which our mutual inspiration derives comes from 1982's 'Beastie,' does it not?
Saw this guy at Newcastle City Hall many years ago and was profoundly affected by the sight of a one legged, flute-wielding codpiece meister in full flight.
I suspected that you were a man of wit and discretion; others have sung your praises off-forum and I knew you must be a denizen of qulaity by the sportivissimo of yer wheels.
Added to which qualities is now heralded the attribute of incalculable good taste in the sphere of definitive prog rock.
All hail Don or fall on thy swords.
yeah - driving people like me out of London..
Podie said: Half of them are populated by people of non-UK origin... perhaps these immigrants are the only ones prepared to work for peanuts... hence might actually be providing a useful service?
I don't care if people are from ferkin Mars, but if they cannot speak English, they should not be in a customer facing role, whether that be taxi-driver, McDonalds stooge or whatever else... It used to drive me mad having to deal with people who didn't understand a damned word I was saying *. That's where the 'foreigner in my own country' feeling comes from for a lot of people.
That said, some days I feel like that about this place..
* I'm also deeply conscious of this when I'm in a foreign country where I do not speak the native language & hence make an effort wherever possible to do so.
>> Edited by CarZee (moderator) on Wednesday 11th December 15:52
Of course it stops them being here illegally because it will be legal. It doesn't stop them coming in though.
No10 said the move will STOP the new EU citizens flooding here illegally. Last year 68,000 asylum seekers came to Britain.
How does that work? All of a sudden they get deported because we go into recession. B*****ks.
Ministers said the migrants will lose their right to work here if there is a sudden recession.
Every EU state has 7 years before they have to allow this legal migration. Almost all others are taking that option. As we currently have the biggest problem (per square mile atleast) then we should be making sure we use the law to our maximum advantage. Not collapsing like we've given in to trying to defeat this army of illegal immigrants
Total capitulation, a Government bereft of ideas on how to handle this properly.
The illegals may be earning more than the locals, but how much of it do they pay back in in tax contributions .. and how much do they claim in housing, social etc ....... See all the numbers then make up your minds about whether they are a drain or not.
Mind you, some of those Latvian babes .. mmmmmmmmm come on over !!!!
The illegals may be earning more than the locals, but how much of it do they pay back in in tax contributions .. and how much do they claim in housing, social etc ....... See all the numbers then make up your minds about whether they are a drain or not.
Mind you, some of those Latvian babes .. mmmmmmmmm come on over !!!!
It also raises another issue. Look at the tuppence-ha'penny state machinery in some of these 'former Soviet bloc' countries. Decidedly low-tech.
I reckon you could probably manufacture authentic looking official paperwork for Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovenia, Slovakia, Hungary, Lithuania, Estonia or Latvia using supplies from a Staples catalogue - much easier than trying to produce something that looks like an authentic document from Germany, France, UK etc..
So who'd go in for such forgery and capitalise on the opportunities to be had? The Russian Mafia is who. I mean how many people in this country could tell a Russian or Ukrainian from a Lithuanian, Estonian, Slovakian or Hungarian? Not many.
It'll be the Russian Mafia's route into the UK.
I reckon you could probably manufacture authentic looking official paperwork for Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovenia, Slovakia, Hungary, Lithuania, Estonia or Latvia using supplies from a Staples catalogue - much easier than trying to produce something that looks like an authentic document from Germany, France, UK etc..
So who'd go in for such forgery and capitalise on the opportunities to be had? The Russian Mafia is who. I mean how many people in this country could tell a Russian or Ukrainian from a Lithuanian, Estonian, Slovakian or Hungarian? Not many.
It'll be the Russian Mafia's route into the UK.
derestrictor said: Overpopulation is THE problem.
You know, I think it's the *quality* of the population, not the numbers that are causing problems.
Point 1) Most immigrants have worked fecking hard to get here and I'm sure most could teach a thing or two to the pushchair wheeling, hula-hoop earinged brigade of teenage mothers & faux-gangsta "bling bling" delinquents tooling around these parts of the big smoke a thing or two about social responsibility, and about getting off your arse & doing something positive about your life.
Point 2) There are over 100 established ethnic groups in Toronto, and nearly as many languages spoken. It's one of the nicest cities I've been to.
>> Edited by polar_ben on Wednesday 11th December 16:43
Although I definitely don't want a wave of people coming in just so they can get benefits, the problem really isn't as big as the tabloids make out. Certainly, it might get bad in time, but the numbers aren't huge yet. The population of Britain is actually declining, we are having trouble recruiting and keeping enough doctors, nurses and teachers, and the demographics of population are going to cause a lot of problems in the future, when the number of pensioners dwarfs the numbers of people working.
In these issues, immigration of skilled workers can be a good thing. If you look at it from the other side of the fence, many of the countries that people are coming from are unhappy at what they see as poaching of their human resources by a rich country.
When considering your sources, too, remember, it's in the tabliod's interest to whip up outrage, to keep people buying the papers to read more. Same as soap operas having shocking events in them.
As a source of well thought out and balanced reporting, the Sun is not really the place to look. It's entertaining, but it is also biased as hell. I'd trsongly suggest that those who read it, if they want a rounded picture, to at least get something liek the independent, Times, Telegraph or Guardian too. You need to ead a range of papers to get the whole picture.
In these issues, immigration of skilled workers can be a good thing. If you look at it from the other side of the fence, many of the countries that people are coming from are unhappy at what they see as poaching of their human resources by a rich country.
When considering your sources, too, remember, it's in the tabliod's interest to whip up outrage, to keep people buying the papers to read more. Same as soap operas having shocking events in them.
As a source of well thought out and balanced reporting, the Sun is not really the place to look. It's entertaining, but it is also biased as hell. I'd trsongly suggest that those who read it, if they want a rounded picture, to at least get something liek the independent, Times, Telegraph or Guardian too. You need to ead a range of papers to get the whole picture.
polar_ben said:
derestrictor said: Overpopulation is THE problem.
You know, I think it's the *quality* of the population, not the numbers that are causing problems.
Point 1) Most immigrants have worked fecking hard to get here and I'm sure most could teach a thing or two to the pushchair wheeling, hula-hoop earinged brigade of teenage mothers & faux-gangsta "bling bling" delinquents tooling around these parts of the big smoke a thing or two about social responsibility, and about getting off your arse & doing something positive about your life.
Point 2) There are over 100 established ethnic groups in Toronto, and nearly as many languages spoken. It's one of the nicest cities I've been to.
>> Edited by polar_ben on Wednesday 11th December 16:43
1) Agree with you that there is a lot of home produced wasters that we should export
2) Toronto has a lot of problems as well, including a high murder rate, especially around the Jane & Finch area.
Sunday Times article said that due to demographic forecasts, we need immigration to a) meet growth targets b) take on the jobs that the people in point No1 won't do
Maybe we should start with them....i.e. bling, bling.
If Her Majesty's govt stopped blowing BILLIONS on far flung never heard of countries that'll never thank us, and share the dough amongst corrupt officials, ransom red-cross workers, etc., maybe we'd have a few EUROs (sorry Pounds) to help our Eastern Block neighbours out more and get them started. In the East of Europe they are generally hard working, precise and skilled workers (not pampered by high tech). You get bad apples in every barrel of course. If they stay in eastern Europe, we will soon be overtaken by them. So bring 'em over. Just stop the haemorrage on the other side of the world. AND, we were happy enough when communism collapsed, and helped it on its way. Now they don't have communism anymore they need jobs, food, fancy cars, videos etc. But THEY will work bloody hard for that.
Don said:
derestrictor said:
Bring me my broadsword...
And my cross of gold as a talisman?
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Edited to say "DOH" - should have read the rest of the thread......
.....but just to show I'm not too old to rock and roll and I'm too young to ....... >> Edited by beano1197 on Wednesday 11th December 17:44
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