Prisoners Win Right to Father Children from Inside
Discussion
www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,2761-513969,00.html
From the Sunday Times:
Now, I don't agree with Anne Widdecombe when I can possibly avoid it, but this seems like another case of the ECHR allowing extreme liberalism to transcend common-sense and practical considerations such as who's gonna be bloody paying for these fatherless children to be raised.
Consider the cycle of deprivation further enabled by such rulings and the fact that boys who grow up without a father are much more likely than average to end up involved in criminal and anti-social activites.
I despair.
From the Sunday Times:
It goes on.. full text at the link about..
Prisoners take up their right to father children from prison
SIX convicted criminals, including a drug smuggler serving a 17-year sentence, have been allowed to father children from jail by artificial insemination.
The procedures, most of which are thought to have resulted in successful pregnancies, were confirmed by the Home Office last week after permission had been granted in hearings behind closed doors.
Requests from inmates to father children have jumped since the Human Rights Act was introduced last year. Using articles 8 and 12 of the act, which give all EU citizens the right to start a family, prisoners are successfully arguing for permission to procreate from behind bars.
The most recent of six successful applications was granted in September. At least six more are being considered.
“There are no standard circumstances under which we would approve a request for this,” the Home Office said last week. “(But) it is more difficult for us to say no now.”
Prisoners serving long sentences for serious crimes are most likely to benefit. An inmate serving a 17-year sentence for drug smuggling has recently been given the right to procreate because his wife might be too old to conceive by the time he is released.
...
But Ann Widdecombe, a former Tory prisons minister, said the practice was deplorable. “Prison is no place to father a child,” she said.
Now, I don't agree with Anne Widdecombe when I can possibly avoid it, but this seems like another case of the ECHR allowing extreme liberalism to transcend common-sense and practical considerations such as who's gonna be bloody paying for these fatherless children to be raised.
Consider the cycle of deprivation further enabled by such rulings and the fact that boys who grow up without a father are much more likely than average to end up involved in criminal and anti-social activites.
I despair.
An inmate serving a 17-year sentence for drug smuggling has recently been given the right to procreate because his wife might be too old to conceive by the time he is released.
If he was that desperate to have a kid then he should have stayed on the right side of the law.
What with immigrants and teenage pregnancy this country is heading straight towards a population crisis (if we're not there already) so surely the government should be putting a stop to crap like this.
Either the crims have got stashes of loot to pay for the kid's upbringing, or it'll be billed direct to us law-abiding, tax-paying types.
Depending on your POV prison is either for punishment or rehabilitation - not for conjugal visits, either with the missus or with a test tube. If tax payers money is going to be spent on IVF, then for god's sake spend it on deserving, decent couples who can't have kids for reasons other than one of them being banged up (if you'll forgive the pun...)
Ummm.... I seem to have missed something somewhere along the line. I thought the idea of prison was to take away privileges which we law-abiding citizens take for granted?? So how come prisoners can get married "inside", father children (albeit not in the usual way...), etc.?
The world has gone mad. Either that, or I have.
The world has gone mad. Either that, or I have.
The ECHR is well known for this kind of rubbish. Sadly Tony B signed us up for it too now, so there's no chance of a reprieve from it.
The trouble is there is a MASSIVE gravy train for lawyers now in persuing this kind of case, so expect more of the same in the years to come. Indeed it is so lucrative that new chambers have been set up in the last few years specifically to exploit the new "market".
The most famous of these is obviously Matrix.......
A senior partner is Matrix is one Cherie Booth QC.
Clearly, our Tony's decision to adopt the ECHR rulings was not in any way influenced by this...............
So now we have a situation where I can commit any violent crime, get sent to prison, enjoy TV, good food, health care, days out (for rehabilitation), a £75k payout for going to the wrong school, father my kids and be free in 10 years cos it's not "humane" to keep me in prison.
Anyone thinking the above is an oversimplistic exageration had better read it again, cos it isn't, cos it's all true !
Andy 400se
The trouble is there is a MASSIVE gravy train for lawyers now in persuing this kind of case, so expect more of the same in the years to come. Indeed it is so lucrative that new chambers have been set up in the last few years specifically to exploit the new "market".
The most famous of these is obviously Matrix.......
A senior partner is Matrix is one Cherie Booth QC.
Clearly, our Tony's decision to adopt the ECHR rulings was not in any way influenced by this...............
So now we have a situation where I can commit any violent crime, get sent to prison, enjoy TV, good food, health care, days out (for rehabilitation), a £75k payout for going to the wrong school, father my kids and be free in 10 years cos it's not "humane" to keep me in prison.
Anyone thinking the above is an oversimplistic exageration had better read it again, cos it isn't, cos it's all true !
Andy 400se
Exactly.. according to the article, there's a woman who married a guy who's in prision. She met him via a prisoner correspondance scheme. Hence they've never had a proper relationship and yet she's to be allowed to have his children, because she's 41 and will be infertile by the time he's out.
SGirl said: Ummm.... I seem to have missed something somewhere along the line. I thought the idea of prison was to take away privileges which we law-abiding citizens take for granted?? So how come prisoners can get married "inside", father children (albeit not in the usual way...), etc.?
Utter utter stupidity.
CarZee said: ..because she's 41 and will be infertile by the time he's out.
Utter utter stupidity.
So what if she's infertile. A case for natural deselection from the gene pool.
[hazy moment as we leap forward several years]
A.N. Other kid: "My Dads an engineer. So what does your Dad do?"
Crim Offspring: "He's a W****r in prison"
[/hazy moment as we leap forward several years]
While I go along with the majority of posters opinions on this, there was a rather errant piece of argument higher up.
Population growth is not large in the UK, so that, in itself, is not a useful fact in this debate.
Quite the opposite is the case, we have a population which is getting older, as people delay having children, have fewer of them, and as people live longer.
I accept my figures might be out of date, but, miniman, where were yours from?
Population growth is not large in the UK, so that, in itself, is not a useful fact in this debate.
Quite the opposite is the case, we have a population which is getting older, as people delay having children, have fewer of them, and as people live longer.
I accept my figures might be out of date, but, miniman, where were yours from?
Prison should surely be a system of punishment, a deterrent for others and also a process of rehabilitation for introduction bcak into society, I don't see how being allowed to father children from inside achieves any of this! .. however on a more positive note .. saw a great piece on animal hospital about prisoners working with birds of prey, was uplifting on many levels.
northernboy said: While I go along with the majority of posters opinions on this, there was a rather errant piece of argument higher up.
Population growth is not large in the UK, so that, in itself, is not a useful fact in this debate.
Quite the opposite is the case, we have a population which is getting older, as people delay having children, have fewer of them, and as people live longer.
I accept my figures might be out of date, but, miniman, where were yours from?
Although the pregnancy rate in this country is rising especially among youngsters (!) .. the actual birth rate in some areas is falling due to the high abortion rate (source .. daily express ..)
joospeed said:
Although the pregnancy rate in this country is rising especially among youngsters (!) .. the actual birth rate in some areas is falling due to the high abortion rate (source .. daily express ..)
[Sarcastic mode on]
Mind you with all the immigrants coming into the country things should even out.
[Sarcastic mode off]
As for the prisoner/baby situation why the chuff are they allowing people to form relationships with known criminals through this introduction scheme. Do they want people fratinising or is it just so that the rest of the country can feel like MP's
Still at least we know that good tax money has gone to pay for:
Locking the crim up
Paying for his fertility treatment
Raising his sprogs
Meanwhile, Pensioners may have their Bus Passes revoked to keep costs down.
Andymanak - Surely you are not suggesting anything untoward has happend there..
Locking the crim up
Paying for his fertility treatment
Raising his sprogs
Meanwhile, Pensioners may have their Bus Passes revoked to keep costs down.
Andymanak - Surely you are not suggesting anything untoward has happend there..
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