Active Sex Descrimination in Motorsport / Tv
Discussion
For those who have not read the news section today you may not have seen the latest Women only motor series that has been launched. www.formulawoman.com
This 'competition' is going to be screened as a pop stars type whittling down process on Carlton Tv with the winners treated to intensive training. They then compete in a race series in 2004 in the new Rx8s
Now what would happen if this was billed as a Male only show?
My blood is boiling yet again.
This 'competition' is going to be screened as a pop stars type whittling down process on Carlton Tv with the winners treated to intensive training. They then compete in a race series in 2004 in the new Rx8s
Now what would happen if this was billed as a Male only show?
My blood is boiling yet again.
If it gets more people interested in motor racing (of either sex) then its got to be a good thing for the sport.
And even if (what I think your getting at) is that they will get a break BECAUSE they are a woman, it will only get them so far.
They certainly won't get into the higher eschelons of motor racing without Money...er I mean talent.
Good luck to 'em all!!
And even if (what I think your getting at) is that they will get a break BECAUSE they are a woman, it will only get them so far.
They certainly won't get into the higher eschelons of motor racing without Money...er I mean talent.
Good luck to 'em all!!
Actually - I don't think its a very good idea. In sports where the male physique provides men with a natural advantage it makes logical sense to seperate the competition between men and women.
In motorsport there is no such advantage. It is a sport that is IDEAL for men and women to participate in and compete on an absolutely level playing field.
Given that the above is true - surely it would be more beneficial to try and interest young women in entering the sport generally - rather than into a specific formula aimed at them.
To me...it seems condecending to the women who do enter the sport to create such a formula. Its a bit like saying:
"Ooooh you poor little fluffy bunnies. You're a bit crap at it so we won't make compete with those nasty men."
If I was a woman I'd be pretty cheesed off at the idea. But of course, I'm not, so how can I know? What do the ladies of PH think?
In motorsport there is no such advantage. It is a sport that is IDEAL for men and women to participate in and compete on an absolutely level playing field.
Given that the above is true - surely it would be more beneficial to try and interest young women in entering the sport generally - rather than into a specific formula aimed at them.
To me...it seems condecending to the women who do enter the sport to create such a formula. Its a bit like saying:
"Ooooh you poor little fluffy bunnies. You're a bit crap at it so we won't make compete with those nasty men."
If I was a woman I'd be pretty cheesed off at the idea. But of course, I'm not, so how can I know? What do the ladies of PH think?
I agree with you there. If I were to be involved in motor racing as a woman, I would want to race against men. I would find it very patronising if I were made to race in a woman only event.
Edited to add: I've just read the post properly and the link, as this is only a competition I've no problem with it being a woman only event. It is a good way of introducing women to the sport
Because motoracing is generally seen as a male dominated sport, this can only be a positive way of introducing it to women.
If it was to be made into a woman only event then my initial reaction to the post would still stand.
>> Edited by mrs fish on Friday 10th January 12:51
Edited to add: I've just read the post properly and the link, as this is only a competition I've no problem with it being a woman only event. It is a good way of introducing women to the sport
Because motoracing is generally seen as a male dominated sport, this can only be a positive way of introducing it to women.
If it was to be made into a woman only event then my initial reaction to the post would still stand.
>> Edited by mrs fish on Friday 10th January 12:51
Possibly the fact that motorsport is male dominated is what puts off women who may be interested but are intimidated away by said male dominance.
I think its a good idea so long as it is handled professionally and not dummed down.....oh and as long as the birds wear tight revealing fit gear innit.
I think its a good idea so long as it is handled professionally and not dummed down.....oh and as long as the birds wear tight revealing fit gear innit.
mrs fish said: I agree with you there. If I were to be involved in motor racing as a woman, I would want to race against men. I would find it very patronising if I were made to race in a woman only event.
Edited to add: I've just read the post properly and the link, as this is only a competition I've no problem with it being a woman only event. It is a good way of introducing women to the sport
Because motoracing is generally seen as a male dominated sport, this can only be a positive way of introducing it to women.
If it was to be made into a woman only event then my initial reaction to the post would still stand.
>> Edited by mrs fish on Friday 10th January 12:51
Hmmmn. I sense mixed views on the subject. There are arguments for either view. I still come down to - why not do something to interest women generally in entering a range of formulas.
Frankly I think there is a danger (as swilly humourously points out) that its appeal will be to young teenage lads......tight fitting nomex suits..
And, I suppose, what's wrong with that...... hmmmn. Not convinced.
Don said: Actually - I don't think its a very good idea. In sports where the male physique provides men with a natural advantage it makes logical sense to seperate the competition between men and women.
In motorsport there is no such advantage. It is a sport that is IDEAL for men and women to participate in and compete on an absolutely level playing field.
I see what you mean, however it is generally recognised that being physically fit is a requirement for good performance in motorsport, and it is easier for men to acheive the fitness required than it is for women. There is also some evidence that most men have better spatial awareness than most women.
I think, on balance, that it is reasonable that there should be a women-only formula.
John
IMO You're wrong about this, Don.. sure, in some of the lower echelons of saloon car racing, men & women can compete on a level playing field, but even club level carting is very physically demanding...
Don said: Actually - I don't think its a very good idea. In sports where the male physique provides men with a natural advantage it makes logical sense to seperate the competition between men and women.
In motorsport there is no such advantage. It is a sport that is IDEAL for men and women to participate in and compete on an absolutely level playing field.
As are single seaters (once you get faster than a classic formula ford) where you're fighting significant lateral G forces in corners..
I don't begrudge women the opportunity to get into motor-sports but I think projects like this are a complete waste of time.. there are many women in motorsport and I'm willing to bet that most women just aren't interested and those that are already do something about it.
>> Edited by CarZee (moderator) on Friday 10th January 13:30
CarZee said: I don't begrudge women the opportunity to get into motor-sports but I think projects like this are a complete waste of time.. there are many women in motorsport and I'm willing to bet that most women just aren't interested and those that are already do something about it.
CarZee - you're right again old bean!!
This one seems to be the topic of a reasonable amount of debate today: have a look here too:
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=42&t=26015
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=42&t=25816
So I shall shut up now.
Edited to add: Oh, except to say that there's nowt wrong with Nomex suits. Very comfortable!!
>> Edited by SGirl on Friday 10th January 13:50
Don said: In sports where the male physique provides men with a natural advantage it makes logical sense to seperate the competition between men and women.
In motorsport there is no such advantage. It is a sport that is IDEAL for men and women to participate in and compete on an absolutely level playing field.
Can't agree there.
Men are naturally more agressive - and you need aggression to be successful in motorsport.
And fitness - I run 10 K in 39 mins but after every race I'm totally exhausted, thats driving a little Golf. I can only imagine what its like in a single seater.
OK..you're convincing me. Perhaps its not as level a playing field as I have thought it is...sure enough Karting is physically draining for someone not used to it (me!).
But I still feel that a special formula is somehow denigrating and that promoting entry into established formulas would be a better use of precious motorsport funding.
Frankly - I think all the bang for (marketing) buck will be Mazda's.
Mind you...if a few of the lady drivers can then graduate to established formulas..who wouldn't have otherwise..I'm sure that's a good thing.
Why do I still feel so cynical about it?
But I still feel that a special formula is somehow denigrating and that promoting entry into established formulas would be a better use of precious motorsport funding.
Frankly - I think all the bang for (marketing) buck will be Mazda's.
Mind you...if a few of the lady drivers can then graduate to established formulas..who wouldn't have otherwise..I'm sure that's a good thing.
Why do I still feel so cynical about it?
Some good points made above. My personal gripe with these type of things is that it excludes, yet again, men. I would love the opportunity to enter something like this - as most PHers. Why cant I? Because I have dangly bits.
As for the physical aspect of motorsport I think most women would find it patronising to say that they couldnt drive a kart as well as a man because they are deemed weaker. Remember they are also (generally)lighter and therefore going to be quicker.
Its all down to interest as Ted points out - this will disappear without trace after season one.
As for the physical aspect of motorsport I think most women would find it patronising to say that they couldnt drive a kart as well as a man because they are deemed weaker. Remember they are also (generally)lighter and therefore going to be quicker.
Its all down to interest as Ted points out - this will disappear without trace after season one.
Not deemed weaker - *are* physically weaker and less agressive on aggregate - hence why women compete in seperate classes in practically all physical sports..
broccoli said: I think most women would find it patronising to say that they couldnt drive a kart as well as a man because they are deemed weaker.
It's an immutable fact, not some artificial barrier erected by men who don't want women playing in their game..
Any woman who gets the hump about this needs to stop taking the jackbooted feminists too seriously and get real.. oh and yes, there are women who are strong, agressive and capable.. but not many can compete with men of similar fitness level. Doesn't mean to say men are better than women or anything like that - just different from each other with different strengths.
>> Edited by CarZee (moderator) on Friday 10th January 14:43
CarZee said: yes, there are women who are strong, agressive and capable.. but not many can compete with men of similar fitness level.
But then those women who aren't all of those things probably wouldn't want to get involved in a race series anyway.
So does that mean I agree or disagree?!!!
Anyway, my first reaction was that it's patronising, but then I then I changed my mind and thought it was a good way of perhaps getting some people into motorsport who wouldn't be interested otherwise (including the women's partners/spouses).
At worst, it doesn't do any harm; at best, it's a great opportunity.
It's Mazda's call anyway. We can debate all we like - it's a done deal!
CarZee said:'k.. prove it... find supporting evidence.
broccoli said:LOL - utter rubbish.
Just to recap before I take up that challenge (by the way I expect supporting evidence from your good self) - you are saying that 'women cant compete with men of similar fitness levels' - that is my interpretation of your statement.
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