difference between speeding and drink-driving?
Discussion
Morally, is there a difference?
Alcohol makes you more likely to crash, and the more you have, the more likely it is. Speed also does this.
However, speeding is socially acceptable, drink-driving is not. everyone applauded the guy in another post who shopped a drink driver - I bet he wouldn't have got such an enthusiastic response if he shopped a speeder.
I'm curious becasue I live in the USA, where the the anti-drink-drive culture is not so prevalent. Here in houston there is really no alternative to driving to a bar. I would say with confidence that over half the people who leave a bar are over the legal limit, including myself much of the time. Most people would publicly condemn the practice but still do it. They don't see themselves as the problem. Sure, they say, they've had a few beers, say 6 pints over an evening, but they are OK to drive.
On the other hand, speeding is probably tolerated less here than in UK. I had a girlfriend (now ex) who called the cops when a Corvette passed her at what she considered excessive speed.
Just an observation really. I never drove drunk in the UK and it took me many months in the USA of declining invitations to go out or nursing my second beer all night long before I broke down and started doing what was normal here - driving home over the limit. many people would deny driving drunk - they don't realise that three or four beers is all it takes to be over the limit. If the law was enforced, most of the bars in Texas would close down from lack of custom, I reckon.
Just thought I'd throw that in there for discussion (and no doubt flames). BTW I'd love it if there were taxis or buses around or if it was common to use a designated (non-drinking) driver, but this just isn't how it works. I'm not condoning driving drunk at all - no doubt it costs and destroys lives.
I'm really interested in why the cultural difference exists between the US and UK.
Duncan
Alcohol makes you more likely to crash, and the more you have, the more likely it is. Speed also does this.
However, speeding is socially acceptable, drink-driving is not. everyone applauded the guy in another post who shopped a drink driver - I bet he wouldn't have got such an enthusiastic response if he shopped a speeder.
I'm curious becasue I live in the USA, where the the anti-drink-drive culture is not so prevalent. Here in houston there is really no alternative to driving to a bar. I would say with confidence that over half the people who leave a bar are over the legal limit, including myself much of the time. Most people would publicly condemn the practice but still do it. They don't see themselves as the problem. Sure, they say, they've had a few beers, say 6 pints over an evening, but they are OK to drive.
On the other hand, speeding is probably tolerated less here than in UK. I had a girlfriend (now ex) who called the cops when a Corvette passed her at what she considered excessive speed.
Just an observation really. I never drove drunk in the UK and it took me many months in the USA of declining invitations to go out or nursing my second beer all night long before I broke down and started doing what was normal here - driving home over the limit. many people would deny driving drunk - they don't realise that three or four beers is all it takes to be over the limit. If the law was enforced, most of the bars in Texas would close down from lack of custom, I reckon.
Just thought I'd throw that in there for discussion (and no doubt flames). BTW I'd love it if there were taxis or buses around or if it was common to use a designated (non-drinking) driver, but this just isn't how it works. I'm not condoning driving drunk at all - no doubt it costs and destroys lives.
I'm really interested in why the cultural difference exists between the US and UK.
Duncan
Morally, is there a difference?
Alcohol makes you more likely to crash, and the more you have, the more likely it is. Speed also does this.
Duncan
I disagree with this statement, speeding can make a crash worse, more likely? mmmm, i would say slightly but not greatly. Braking distances including reaction distance is greater when speeding than when drunk (within reason). Also when drunk you will be much less aware of your speed so probably exceed the limit also. I cant say I have any experiance about drink driving, and i certainly never will, its not worth a life or injury to anyone.
[I have ridden a bike (push) while drunk, that was quite entertaining for others, but not a good idea]
Houston Texas.. lived there for 4 years (Kingwood)
I know what you mean, public transport is none-existant and taxis(huh?..) Being on the richmond strip was a dangerous place around closing time.
Whats the definition of speeding in houston as I mostly spent my time at 85-ish up and down I59?
I think 6 pints of US beer is not the same as 6 UK pints as that watered down stuff can't compare
I know what you mean, public transport is none-existant and taxis(huh?..) Being on the richmond strip was a dangerous place around closing time.
Whats the definition of speeding in houston as I mostly spent my time at 85-ish up and down I59?
I think 6 pints of US beer is not the same as 6 UK pints as that watered down stuff can't compare
A interesting question. I'm not sure there's a really definitive answer to it. As with so many things, i think the size of the US is a factor, so there is unlikely to be the same attitude in Texas as there is in NY for instance, and similarly, because of the different attitudes in different states the government is unable (unwilling?) to promote an anti DD campaign.
I think that being anti DD in the UK is a lot easier than most of the US, the population in the UK seems to be more urban, as in more people live within stubmling distance of the pub. So there are real alternatives to driving home.
The Binge drinking 'culture' here also plays a large part, where people will go out with the intention of getting smashed rather than for the company. So they struggle to even get TO the car, let alone actually remember how to drive the thing. So if they know they won't be able to drive, they won't bother. Having not been to the US in anything other than Disneyland mode i'm not able to comment on whether the dringing style is any different there.
Also, additionally and finally, most of the america i've been to, seems pretty unflriendly to pedestrians. There arent' as many opportunities to walk around as there are in the UK, people use their cars as a percieved necessity.
I shan't be offering many oppinions on the subject, as one of my friends was killed by a drunk driver a year ago, his dad was paralysed in the same accident. I'd find it hard offer a sensible oppinion.
I think that being anti DD in the UK is a lot easier than most of the US, the population in the UK seems to be more urban, as in more people live within stubmling distance of the pub. So there are real alternatives to driving home.
The Binge drinking 'culture' here also plays a large part, where people will go out with the intention of getting smashed rather than for the company. So they struggle to even get TO the car, let alone actually remember how to drive the thing. So if they know they won't be able to drive, they won't bother. Having not been to the US in anything other than Disneyland mode i'm not able to comment on whether the dringing style is any different there.
Also, additionally and finally, most of the america i've been to, seems pretty unflriendly to pedestrians. There arent' as many opportunities to walk around as there are in the UK, people use their cars as a percieved necessity.
I shan't be offering many oppinions on the subject, as one of my friends was killed by a drunk driver a year ago, his dad was paralysed in the same accident. I'd find it hard offer a sensible oppinion.
Actually, I re-read my post and am afraid it still sounds like I am condoning drink driving. I'm not. The reason UK roads are so safe compared to the US is that (generally) UK drivers are more responsible, careful, more skillful and better trained. And most importantly, they don't drink and drive - which is part of the same thing. Clearly all this is good.
So why not here in the US?
>> Edited by duncanreally on Tuesday 14th January 20:52
So why not here in the US?
>> Edited by duncanreally on Tuesday 14th January 20:52
Some bloody good questions! Is drink driving the same as speeding? No, DEFINATELY not. DD is far more serious. Drink impares your ability to make decisions, make judgements and makes one over confident. Drink taken to extreme will totaly prevent you from making any kind of safe progress. In the other thread (Derestrictor I think?) someone told the little ditty where a guy was totaly & uterly wasted. He could have wiped out a family and known absolutely nothing about it.
Of course speed can be dangerous and total ignorance of its conciquences(sp?) will lead to the same outcome. Most drivers, even numpties have at least some understanding of what excess speed can lead too. Those who take speed to extreme normally do so through choice. You could argue that higher speeds lead to higher levels of awareness, if only through hightened levels of adrenalin. Drink has the complete opposite effect.
I would far rather drive on roads where all drivers where habitual speeders than habitual drink drivers. They are simply more predictable.
Paul
Of course speed can be dangerous and total ignorance of its conciquences(sp?) will lead to the same outcome. Most drivers, even numpties have at least some understanding of what excess speed can lead too. Those who take speed to extreme normally do so through choice. You could argue that higher speeds lead to higher levels of awareness, if only through hightened levels of adrenalin. Drink has the complete opposite effect.
I would far rather drive on roads where all drivers where habitual speeders than habitual drink drivers. They are simply more predictable.
Paul
Morally, is there a difference?
Most definately
Alcohol makes you more likely to crash, and the more you have, the more likely it is. Speed also does this.
Speed will not cause you to crash. period.
You may have an accident at any speed, such as bumping a car while parking. I will grant you speed will exagerate the results of the accident, and the more speed the more damage. BUT, it is not more likely to make you have an accident.
Alcohol on the other hand affcects both concentration and sight. Two major factors related to driving.
I'm really interested in why the cultural difference exists between the US and UK.
[sarcasm mode]
We have a culture perhaps
[/sarcasm mode]
This has raised one interesting point in that we are all on message wrt DD over here, especially those of us still (just) under 30
.
Speeding can be as dangerous. I would argue however that a speeder still has the option to read the road ahead. Predict what is to come, and shed that speed when necessary (built up area, numptie pedestrians, blind bends, slippy roads etc). Driving under the influence, you are less likely to be able to make these decisions, so the chances of an accident are greater.
Always be difficult, and I can see how public opinion is different in Texas. As has been mentioned, we have great roads to drive on and most of us can walk to the pub. Might be different if we had cr@p roads and a 20 mile trip for a night out
.
. Speeding can be as dangerous. I would argue however that a speeder still has the option to read the road ahead. Predict what is to come, and shed that speed when necessary (built up area, numptie pedestrians, blind bends, slippy roads etc). Driving under the influence, you are less likely to be able to make these decisions, so the chances of an accident are greater.
Always be difficult, and I can see how public opinion is different in Texas. As has been mentioned, we have great roads to drive on and most of us can walk to the pub. Might be different if we had cr@p roads and a 20 mile trip for a night out
.I agree with the points about drink always being dangerous but speed only sometimes. Thus, in this sense, DD is more serious. But it is only a question of degree of seriousness, or where you draw the line, not a moral absolute.
Since SUVs cause more deaths per accident (slightly more for the occupants but 3x more for the people they crash into) is it immoral to drive an SUV, or just distasteful?
Some people have said that speed only makes the consequences of accidents worse, not their likelyhood. clearly this is not true - greater speed requires greater stopping, slowing, turning distance.
Duncan
Since SUVs cause more deaths per accident (slightly more for the occupants but 3x more for the people they crash into) is it immoral to drive an SUV, or just distasteful?
Some people have said that speed only makes the consequences of accidents worse, not their likelyhood. clearly this is not true - greater speed requires greater stopping, slowing, turning distance.
Duncan
ultimapaul said: I would far rather drive on roads where all drivers where habitual speeders than habitual drink drivers. They are simply more predictable.
Paul
so would we all but what about the mix of speeders silly old grannies with their noses pressed against the windscreen and mum on the school run with 3 screaming kids in the back, your senses may be on red alert cos u have a close association with the red line but when granma cuts across your lane on the roundabout what u gonna do..... coffin dodger or not u r still gonna feel guilty
we really need more control on the standards of the driving and allowance from the old bill on speeding at night having just been done for 95 on the motorway average over 5 miles
(hmm lucky really :-D)at 12:45 in the wee small hours road was empty only me and one other car oops guess who. After all they say speeding is antisocial ok lets allow it in antisocial times get it out our systems and we can drive normally with the rest of the herd in the day light But speeding during rush hour or when there are chances of accidents (most of the time round here in normal hours) is just as bad as drinking
But some people sober are worse than some people after 3 pints (say)
deltaf said: Speeding dosent automatically put you in less control of your car or yourself.
Drink always does.
Question answered i think, and without a rant too...
Should we ignore the crap drivers, but lock up the others?
Surely we should be testing competence rather than sobriety (sure I know you could argue it's easy to test blood/alcohol, but lets assume we could test competence - through a computer game, say)
Note, I do not drink & drive, and don't condone it, I just think there is a massive kneejerk reaction without actually considering it.
Driving whilst suffering from 'flu can be equally damaging to your reactions as drunk driving - should we have roadside 'flu tests during the winter?
It's not as black & white as some people would like to make out, it's a sliding scale of risk, as with most things in life.
I know you've lost mates through to DD mungo, but there are times when there are excuses for it...
mungo said:
Seriously though, drink driving is a completely different kettle of fish altogether than speeding. It can be worse than driving in your sleep!!! Never an excuse for it!
A couple from experiences from my friends -
A mate of mine was/is a deer estate manager - got phoned up by police at 3am to say that they needed him to come out urgently, as someone had hit a big deer & they needed his help with a landrover to help save someone's life (I think the car/deer interface was rather tight).
He said he couldn't as he had had 6 pints that night. The policeman told him to shut-up & get in his landrover. A woman's life was saved.
Another mate of mine who lived at Johnson's Harbour in the Falkland Islands during the war. He used his landrover to help move munitions to British troops while they were on the final push to free Port Stanley. Since he was driving through minefields each way, he drank a fair amount of rum to calm his nerves (he was being shot at as well - I saw his landrover afterwards)
He reckons that without the drink he wouldn't have been able to do it & the push would have taken longer & more people would probably have died.
Extreme cases? Possibly; but they are real examples that I am using to show that there are cases when there are excuses for it
Yup - From what I've seen (a few extended trips to Tampa) it does appear more acceptable to drink drive in the States than it is here, and less acceptable to speed, although I understand the penalties are quite high if you do get stopped and prosecuted.
Could you argue (Only raising this as an observation)that as the driving conditions out there are so different that someone slightly over the drink limit there would be more safe than someone slightly over the speed limit here? - Nah its down entirely to the driver, the car they are driving and their ability at the time (IMO)
Personaly (from growing up and having done it and wishing I hadn't - tho' never got caught but realised what could have happened etc)I'm really not happy with drink driving, but if someone wants to pass me doing a ton+ then good for them if the roads clear and they can see what is happening I reckon that's safer than them thinking they know its safe, which appears to be the arguement against.
Cheers
Paul
Could you argue (Only raising this as an observation)that as the driving conditions out there are so different that someone slightly over the drink limit there would be more safe than someone slightly over the speed limit here? - Nah its down entirely to the driver, the car they are driving and their ability at the time (IMO)
Personaly (from growing up and having done it and wishing I hadn't - tho' never got caught but realised what could have happened etc)I'm really not happy with drink driving, but if someone wants to pass me doing a ton+ then good for them if the roads clear and they can see what is happening I reckon that's safer than them thinking they know its safe, which appears to be the arguement against.
Cheers
Paul
deltaf said: Speeding dosent automatically put you in less control of your car or yourself.
Drink always does.
Question answered i think, and without a rant too...
Agree.. Drink will always cause you to be in less control of your vehicle than you would be if you were sober.
The consequences of an accident at higher speeds will be more unpleasant than at lower speeds. The critical thing about speed is how appropriate it is in the environment you are in at the time. 85 on a clear motorway is IMHO fine. 50 on the same road in fog could IMHO be suicidal and potentially leathal to others.
>> Edited by Psychobert on Tuesday 14th January 23:43
I think Duncan makes a good point and one which I already subscribe to. If you speed you are less likely to be able to control your vehicle. Being under the influence of drink is the same as far as I can see. Of course it also depends on your speed and how much you drink.
I think many speeders look down upon drink drivers in the same way as murderers in jail look down upon child molesters - it makes them feel better about themselves.
I very rarely drink and drive but never drink more than a pint before I drive if I do. My main reason for doing this is because I don't want to lose my license. I have seen plenty of people in business that drive over the limit regularly. I think people need to become a little more honest about drink driving.
I think many speeders look down upon drink drivers in the same way as murderers in jail look down upon child molesters - it makes them feel better about themselves.
I very rarely drink and drive but never drink more than a pint before I drive if I do. My main reason for doing this is because I don't want to lose my license. I have seen plenty of people in business that drive over the limit regularly. I think people need to become a little more honest about drink driving.
duncanreally said: Some people have said that speed only makes the consequences of accidents worse, not their likelyhood. clearly this is not true - greater speed requires greater stopping, slowing, turning distance.
my view is similar to that of boyr4acer.
Can you define speed? Is 20mph past a school at turning out time too fast? By the same token is 95mph down an empty motorway too fast?
so would you class being 10mph under the speed limits as speeding?? Probably not, and yet you have more likelyhood of being involved in an accident than on an empty motorway at 25mph over the limit.
Therefore speed does not cause accidents, and my statements from earlier are true.
Forums | General Gassing [Archive] | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff