Another OT sorry - anyone know employment law?

[mannginger]

Specifically - are Codes of Practice, for example regarding discrimination and harrasment, considered to be part and parcel of someones terms and conditions of employment?

Cheers, Phil

[johnelliott]

Could you give a bit more detail? eg the codes of practice you refer to, are these the codes of the employer, and are they stricter than the actual laws of the land? are you asking if an employee would be bound by them?

John

[mannginger]

I am doing some research into sexuality discrimination in the work place and was wondering if... whether a code of practice introduced by an employer to curb discrimination in the workplace could be used by someone forced to leave due to harrasment etc, as a case for wrongful dismissal.

EG: the code of conduct states that it is wrong to harrass someone due to their age, sex, sexuality, disability etc. Therefore if a person is harrased by their boss due to their sexuality is there a case for the dismissed person to claim against the employer?

Yes those codes of practice that I have seen are stricter than the current laws of the land especially regarding sexuality discrimination - would this make a difference in a court or have an effect on the ruling?


>> Edited by mannginger on Tuesday 21st January 19:07

[johnelliott]

If the person was forced to resign due to ANY behaviour on the part of ANY of the other employees but especially the boss then that amounts to constructive dismissal and a case could be put before the industrilal tribunal. Naturally you would have to show that you had been forced to resign, and had taken steps to reduce the unpleasantness being worked on you by complaining at a higher level etc
The Citizens' Advice Bureau is the place to start, these people know what they are doing, and if they don't they know who to ask, and it's FREE

John

[gopher]

mannginger said: I am doing some research into sexuality discrimination in the work place and was wondering if... whether a code of practice introduced by an employer to curb discrimination in the workplace could be used by someone forced to leave due to harrasment etc, as a case for wrongful dismissal.

EG: the code of conduct states that it is wrong to harrass someone due to their age, sex, sexuality, disability etc. Therefore if a person is harrased by their boss due to their sexuality is there a case for the dismissed person to claim against the employer?

Yes those codes of practice that I have seen are stricter than the current laws of the land especially regarding sexuality discrimination - would this make a difference in a court or have an effect on the ruling?


>> Edited by mannginger on Tuesday 21st January 19:07

you would not need a code of practice to sue on discrimination grounds if they were forced to leave as a result of harresment due to their sexuality - if they can prove that was the case then it is against the law. I would assume that if a company does have a code of practice that was not adhered to then it might supply further evidence towards a "constuctive dismisal" case although if the employer beleives they have a strong case it could back that case up.

(9 years doing this sort of stuff for her majesty at national Govt level but have been out of it for at least 5 years thank god)

Cheers

Paul

p.s you do mean Sexuality or Sexual? (not that it makes a lot of difference as far as employment law is concerned)

Edited to say: I corrected something that didn't need correcting, marvelous.

>> Edited by gopher on Tuesday 21st January 20:54

[joust]

To save me re-posting the links - there is loads on-line about this and more.

See www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=23&h=&t=26017 and search for my replies. If you need something more specific ask me and I'll dig it out.

J

[mannginger]

Thanks for the replies people.

I did mean sexuality discrimination, and it does seem to make a huge difference on things. This curently seems like a grey area as far as UK law stands. This should change in December when new amendments will be introduced, but as far as I can see from my research (particularly at www.lager.dircon.co.uk) there doesn't actually seem to be any specific legal argument for someone dismissed due to being lesbian, gay or bisexual just yet.

Having done some thorough "Googling" I have decided not to run with the Code of practice angle as it seems a little tenuous for my needs, but thanks for all the help any way.

Regards

Phil

[pies]

if you have a cat you want to get rid of,and permanently.Leave out a chopped up starfish

P.S i am a cat lover

[joust]

HR act covers most things, and was used very effectivly to lower the AOC here.

Also - have you found the Scottish Law stuff that has recently gone on?
Check out Thompson's Law archive (www.thompsons.law.co.uk/) as they seem to be quite up on it from both a scottish law (if I remember rightly the UK courts decided the current sexual discrimination didn't cover sexuality - the Scottish courts found it did - not sure what happened to that spat) and an EU law perspective.

Also - there is a good paper from FFW (we have used them before and they are good) - see www.e-ploymentlaw.com/download/sexual_orientation.pdf.

Try the GMPU as well (given the number of GLB's in it - it's one of their hot topics) - www.gpmu.org.uk/equality/index.html

Other good references are

The Village - www.thevillage.org.uk/
Unison (have a legal brief somewhere on their site) - www.unison.org.uk
Cambridge Faculty of Law - have a whole section of essays and dissitations on the subject
The good old "BBC" (search for "sexulality discrimination") and check out their entire HR section (http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/uk/2000/human_rights/)

That should keep you going - if you need more I'll dig further into my bookmark archive.

J

[gopher]

pies said: if you have a cat you want to get rid of,and permanently.Leave out a chopped up starfish

P.S i am a cat lover

mmmmm - can you expand on that? - and yes I'm a cat lover too

[mannginger]

joust said: HR act covers most things, and was used very effectivly to lower the AOC here.

Also - have you found the Scottish Law stuff that has recently gone on?
Check out Thompson's Law archive (www.thompsons.law.co.uk/) as they seem to be quite up on it from both a scottish law (if I remember rightly the UK courts decided the current sexual discrimination didn't cover sexuality - the Scottish courts found it did - not sure what happened to that spat) and an EU law perspective.

Also - there is a good paper from FFW (we have used them before and they are good) - see www.e-ploymentlaw.com/download/sexual_orientation.pdf.

Try the GMPU as well (given the number of GLB's in it - it's one of their hot topics) - www.gpmu.org.uk/equality/index.html

Other good references are

The Village - www.thevillage.org.uk/
Unison (have a legal brief somewhere on their site) - www.unison.org.uk
Cambridge Faculty of Law - have a whole section of essays and dissitations on the subject
The good old "BBC" (search for "sexulality discrimination") and check out their entire HR section (http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/uk/2000/human_rights/)

That should keep you going - if you need more I'll dig further into my bookmark archive.

J

Thanks Joust - had already got a load of useful stuff from the unison and Thompsons sites - will go and check out the others as well. You're right about english and scottish courts seeing things differently. The MacDonald v MOD case in particular highlighted this.

Cheers again.

Phil

[joust]

mannginger said:Thanks Joust - had already got a load of useful stuff from the unison and Thompsons sites - will go and check out the others as well. You're right about english and scottish courts seeing things differently. The MacDonald v MOD case in particular highlighted this.

No probs Phil. It's interesting that Scottish courts seem much more enlightend about these things.

J

[mannginger]

Well the forthcoming changes should soon put a stop to the discrimination - I must admit that when I started the research I was amazed to find out that lesbian, gay or bisexual people have no real legal redress when it comes to discrimination in the workplace and elsewhere. The new legislation should make a difference for employees, but it still doesn't cover (i believe) provision of services and other things such as tenants rights etc etc. Hmmm...what an enlightened society we live in!