The End of the UK Sports Car Industry
Discussion
OK, slightly misleading thread title.
Chatting with my Mum, who's a maths teacher last night. They have dropped the teaching of Mechanics in maths as it is too hard
and the kids get better grades by studying Stats and decision maths - sort of painting by numbers.
What's worse - some of the teachers in the meeting responded by saying what do they need mechanics for anyway - FFS, how did you get to school this morning - even if you are a tree hugging leftie, you have a gear system between your pedals and the back wheel.
This is a worrying trait, these kids now have no route into a decent engineering degree. Let's hope the next PW doesn't attend this school (which as it still does A-Levels, is seen as a high performer FFS
Don't really know what I'm ranting at. One the teachers for not knowing what they teach (and I'm usually a big supporter of the profession), but also a system that can take the maths out of a maths A-level because the grade at the end is more important than the knowledge gained during the course.
WTF am I expected to recruit employees from if the education system won't teach them the basics. I can see training courses in the three R's being at the front of graduate training schemes in a few years time.
Chatting with my Mum, who's a maths teacher last night. They have dropped the teaching of Mechanics in maths as it is too hard
and the kids get better grades by studying Stats and decision maths - sort of painting by numbers. What's worse - some of the teachers in the meeting responded by saying what do they need mechanics for anyway - FFS, how did you get to school this morning - even if you are a tree hugging leftie, you have a gear system between your pedals and the back wheel.
This is a worrying trait, these kids now have no route into a decent engineering degree. Let's hope the next PW doesn't attend this school (which as it still does A-Levels, is seen as a high performer FFS
Don't really know what I'm ranting at. One the teachers for not knowing what they teach (and I'm usually a big supporter of the profession), but also a system that can take the maths out of a maths A-level because the grade at the end is more important than the knowledge gained during the course.
WTF am I expected to recruit employees from if the education system won't teach them the basics. I can see training courses in the three R's being at the front of graduate training schemes in a few years time.
This is worrying as Mechanics should go hand-in-hand with Physics, which is the basis for any engineering degree, and which most accredited university courses would require.
What is decision mathematics?
At A-level IIRC there is/was Pure, Stats and Mechanics.
Then again as no-one bothers doing engineering anymore at university, proper real original engineering that is ie Civil/Structural
, maybe there's no point in mechanics.
>> Edited by swilly on Thursday 23 January 11:33
What is decision mathematics?
At A-level IIRC there is/was Pure, Stats and Mechanics.
Then again as no-one bothers doing engineering anymore at university, proper real original engineering that is ie Civil/Structural
, maybe there's no point in mechanics. >> Edited by swilly on Thursday 23 January 11:33
IIRC from my A-Level days (1983 ish)
If you did maths you had a choice of Pure (calculas etc.) and Applied (mechanics) or Pure and Stats. The choice depended on the other A-Levels you were doing. If you were doing Physics then you did the applied option.
I remember thinking that I definitly made the wrong choice (maths, physics, geography) as the applied was way harder, but it is an essential part of any engineering degree.
By taking Mechanics out of the curriculum they are ensuring that anyone wanting to go into engineering is discriminated against. As it is the universities are having to teach stuff in the first year that was bog standard A-level stuff back then.
If you did maths you had a choice of Pure (calculas etc.) and Applied (mechanics) or Pure and Stats. The choice depended on the other A-Levels you were doing. If you were doing Physics then you did the applied option. I remember thinking that I definitly made the wrong choice (maths, physics, geography) as the applied was way harder, but it is an essential part of any engineering degree.
By taking Mechanics out of the curriculum they are ensuring that anyone wanting to go into engineering is discriminated against. As it is the universities are having to teach stuff in the first year that was bog standard A-level stuff back then.
My maths a-level was 50% pure, 25% mechanics and 25% stats.
bugmeister said: IIRC from my A-Level days (1983 ish)
I remember thinking that I definitly made the wrong choice (maths, physics, geography) as the applied was way harder, but it is an essential part of any engineering degree.
I hated stats.. just couldn't ghet on with it, but mechanics was brilliant - came to me compeletely naturally.. that said I was also doing physics.. (which earned me my highest grade apart from Gen.Studies in which I got lucky by being offered an absolute barnstormer of an essay option..)
Yep. Maths, Physics, Biology.
Did Mechanics in both Maths and Physics. Excellent subject. I remember it seemed hard back then....its a lot less intimidating now....
I remember I respected Biologists at the time as quite often in the text books you would statements like - "the exact mechanism by which this works is, as yet, not fully understood."
i.e. They were willing to admit they didn't actually know....
Did Mechanics in both Maths and Physics. Excellent subject. I remember it seemed hard back then....its a lot less intimidating now....
I remember I respected Biologists at the time as quite often in the text books you would statements like - "the exact mechanism by which this works is, as yet, not fully understood."
i.e. They were willing to admit they didn't actually know....
Now you're trying to upset me swilly
swilly said:
Then again as no-one bothers doing engineering anymore at university, proper real original engineering that is ie Civil/Structural:wink:, maybe there's no point in mechanics.
. We design mechanical structures like moving bridges, continuous casting machines (which produce the steel for the structural guys to bolt together), tunnelling machines including the ones for the Channel Tunnel and CTRL (although maybe not something to be proud of at the moment
). Point I was trying to make in the thread title is that mechanics is an important subject. Everyone on the technical side at Lotus, TVR, all the F1 teams etc has an in depth knowledge. If we lose the basics, we lose the knowledge, and also these companies
daydreamer said:Now you're trying to upset me swilly
swilly said:
Then again as no-one bothers doing engineering anymore at university, proper real original engineering that is ie Civil/Structural:wink:, maybe there's no point in mechanics.
We design mechanical structures like moving bridges, continuous casting machines (which produce the steel for the structural guys to bolt together), tunnelling machines including the ones for the Channel Tunnel and CTRL (although maybe not something to be proud of at the moment
There was a time when all the above would have been carried out by a Civil (or military) Engineer, think of Brunel, he built iron bridges, railways, tunnels, and ships amongst other things etc. and the means to construct them.
Your point is recognised though and fully agreed with, the days of great British engineering do appear to be entering in to their autumn years.
Still Civil is the daddy of them all.
This current education policy is like increasing the size between the goal posts in a footie match.That's just not cricket.
I remember pure and mechanics in maths A level, funny how we all like the mechanics and can't get our heads around anything else!!
I had a call a few days ago from a young lad wanting to go into F1 in some capacity, but he didn't want to go to university.Now I've never worked in F1, but I can imagine that they aren't short of applicants and anyone without a degree would be bottom of a very long list unless they drove up in their own home-built carbon fibre creation.
I wonder how much of the dumbing down is due to pupils not actually wanting to learn anything in the first place. Seems the mechanical industries in general are in for a rough time. Shame .. is the knock on effect in the sports car industry going to mean we lose something else we're world leaders in? .. i would hope there's enough dedicated and technically astute amateurs out there to keep the likes of TVR going, but high flyers like Lotus Engineering must be dreading sorting the wheat from the chaff of university leavers in the next decade.
I remember pure and mechanics in maths A level, funny how we all like the mechanics and can't get our heads around anything else!!
I had a call a few days ago from a young lad wanting to go into F1 in some capacity, but he didn't want to go to university.Now I've never worked in F1, but I can imagine that they aren't short of applicants and anyone without a degree would be bottom of a very long list unless they drove up in their own home-built carbon fibre creation.
I wonder how much of the dumbing down is due to pupils not actually wanting to learn anything in the first place. Seems the mechanical industries in general are in for a rough time. Shame .. is the knock on effect in the sports car industry going to mean we lose something else we're world leaders in? .. i would hope there's enough dedicated and technically astute amateurs out there to keep the likes of TVR going, but high flyers like Lotus Engineering must be dreading sorting the wheat from the chaff of university leavers in the next decade.
yup! 
You out there Mr Wheeler???? 
When I did maths A-level we had no choice but to do Pure and Stats (cica 1991-93) the only mechanics I covered was in my Physics A-level. I never liked stats and attempted the mechanics questions anyway. Ironically the work I do is heavily stats based - still don't like it though......
I agree that there is a definite dilution of standards in Higher Education at present, but don't forget A levels are only one route to a degree - I did a BTEC Diploma first, which was much more practical, and I think that helped me. I'm now a Chartered Engineer in Automotive Development with a Senior Management position and 16 people working for me. So it can be done....
Well, talking to engineering lecturers at various Universities back in the late 80's early 90's (studied elecrical and electronics in Liverpool then worked in Electrical Engineering department in Manchester) they were saying then that the first year had already degenerated to teaching the maths that in the 70's pupils had learnt at A level.
So all the government are doing is continuing the grand tradition of destroying our education system so that everyone will be given a degree on their 21st birthday just for surviving that long.
So all the government are doing is continuing the grand tradition of destroying our education system so that everyone will be given a degree on their 21st birthday just for surviving that long.
I graduated last year with my engineering degree (Masters in Aerospace).. I done 4 A levels Maths Physics Chemistry and Biology My grades we to put it bluntly crap. but because the university i went to offered places to those who went through the interview process only this reduced the numbers, but what reduced the numbers more was the fact that the university stipulated that at a level mechanics was essential and anyone with out the mechanics was not eligiable for a place.
I got a grade C at a Leel for Maths with the other people getting A and B's (they done Stats) i was the only one doing Mechanics...
The stat of the engineering industry in this country is crap, i have setup my own consultation and design business cause i was made redundant and the crap pay other companys offered. now i am working mainly from home, with a small office in the town where i employ a few people. where my main business comes from mainland Europe (ESA CNES Ariane etc) its a small business but building everyday.........
the education system in this contry was one of the best in the world but due to lack of investment and red tape its going down hill..
A servey out a few years ago asked teenage students who did they think was the most famous engineer...
Top answer was
Kevin from corenation street
IKB was in the lowly 80's
anyway this subject is sensitive as people say to me you got c's at a level, my son got a's but your son done art drama and socialogy.....
cheers
steve
I got a grade C at a Leel for Maths with the other people getting A and B's (they done Stats) i was the only one doing Mechanics...
The stat of the engineering industry in this country is crap, i have setup my own consultation and design business cause i was made redundant and the crap pay other companys offered. now i am working mainly from home, with a small office in the town where i employ a few people. where my main business comes from mainland Europe (ESA CNES Ariane etc) its a small business but building everyday.........
the education system in this contry was one of the best in the world but due to lack of investment and red tape its going down hill..
A servey out a few years ago asked teenage students who did they think was the most famous engineer...
Top answer was
Kevin from corenation street
IKB was in the lowly 80's
anyway this subject is sensitive as people say to me you got c's at a level, my son got a's but your son done art drama and socialogy.....
cheers
steve
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