Improving My Driving
Discussion
I'd like to go on a driving school to teach some more advanced techniques. Left foot braking etc.
Hoping to buy a TVR as soon as budget and insurance allows, don't fancy spinning it first time...
Any recommendations?
My budget is kinda limited being a student...
Thanks guys and gals
Andy
Hoping to buy a TVR as soon as budget and insurance allows, don't fancy spinning it first time...
Any recommendations?
My budget is kinda limited being a student...
Thanks guys and gals
Andy
. www.1stlotus.com - worth a look - not that expensive
in the greater scheme of things - andy walsh top tutor in my opinion.
on an airfield so car control is the main focus.
cheers
in the greater scheme of things - andy walsh top tutor in my opinion.
on an airfield so car control is the main focus.
cheers
There is also Rospa (Royal society for the prevention of accidents) advanced driving training.
This has three grades of pass to the test (bronze, silver, gold) - I have heard, from people who are members of both this and the IAM, that an IAM pass is equivalent to bronze/silver standard. The IAM test is like the driving test as well, once you've passed that's it. With Rospa you have to sit the test every 3 years (these retests are free of charge) so no passing the test then reverting back to your bad habits.
Cheers.
This has three grades of pass to the test (bronze, silver, gold) - I have heard, from people who are members of both this and the IAM, that an IAM pass is equivalent to bronze/silver standard. The IAM test is like the driving test as well, once you've passed that's it. With Rospa you have to sit the test every 3 years (these retests are free of charge) so no passing the test then reverting back to your bad habits.
Cheers.
Yes but RoSPA is quite alot more expensive than IAM. The IAM do encourage people to keep attending the local groups and go for drives etc to keep skill levels up. You can also become an observer if you want to really keep things sharp.
shoggoth1 said: There is also Rospa (Royal society for the prevention of accidents) advanced driving training.
This has three grades of pass to the test (bronze, silver, gold) - I have heard, from people who are members of both this and the IAM, that an IAM pass is equivalent to bronze/silver standard. The IAM test is like the driving test as well, once you've passed that's it. With Rospa you have to sit the test every 3 years (these retests are free of charge) so no passing the test then reverting back to your bad habits.
Hi Don,
No unfortunately. I did my IAM motorbike stuff in Manchester before I moved sarth. When I got here I had so much on with new job and looking for somewhere to live etc that it went by the wayside. When I did pick up abit of interest again I found the local bike group was Reading? or somewhere and I didn't ride the bike much anymore ('cos I'd just bought a TVR that summer).
If I find time this spring I will get back in touch with the local M/C guys and go from there.
I have to admit that I had thought about doing the car course but after doing the bike I really didn't think there was much point. Although it might be interesting now since I have been around IAM people for a while.
No unfortunately. I did my IAM motorbike stuff in Manchester before I moved sarth. When I got here I had so much on with new job and looking for somewhere to live etc that it went by the wayside. When I did pick up abit of interest again I found the local bike group was Reading? or somewhere and I didn't ride the bike much anymore ('cos I'd just bought a TVR that summer).
If I find time this spring I will get back in touch with the local M/C guys and go from there.
I have to admit that I had thought about doing the car course but after doing the bike I really didn't think there was much point. Although it might be interesting now since I have been around IAM people for a while.
Could I point out that the IAM seems to be very differnt between car and bike. My father did the bike version and there was the official training (ie don't break speed limit etc.) and the unofficial training which described good riding technique from police riders including how to overtake safely etc (that included breaking the limit).
The car one however is nothing like that. It is done by another driver and only tested by the police. I found that although interesting, a lot of the requirements for the test were not so good. I've discussed this before but I had some instruction in IAM and then gave up before taking the test as I would have to learn techniques as "hoops to jump through" then return back to the safer driving I was already doing.
One good point of IAM was the commentary and observation skills, if you've never tried it, then its well worthwhile. I found this a doddle, but my father/friends/IAM instructor all mentioned that this was because I was already a good driver. It was nice to get the comments back from a trained observer that my driving standard is good.
May I suggest a track training, or skid pan training. Certainly when finances permit I will be looking into this area.
The car one however is nothing like that. It is done by another driver and only tested by the police. I found that although interesting, a lot of the requirements for the test were not so good. I've discussed this before but I had some instruction in IAM and then gave up before taking the test as I would have to learn techniques as "hoops to jump through" then return back to the safer driving I was already doing.
One good point of IAM was the commentary and observation skills, if you've never tried it, then its well worthwhile. I found this a doddle, but my father/friends/IAM instructor all mentioned that this was because I was already a good driver. It was nice to get the comments back from a trained observer that my driving standard is good.
May I suggest a track training, or skid pan training. Certainly when finances permit I will be looking into this area.
I did the IAM bike test a good few years ago: although I was 'marked down' on a few thngs by my Police observer, I still passed the test, and have long wondered how a test for perfection can be still passed with imperfections present. The officer was VERY GOOD at remembering every litle thing I did 'wrong' (like a gearchange mid-bend that I recalled doing for no good reason!).
As for the 'running-commentary' routine: you can do it yourself. Simply think as you're driving along: "What are the potential hazards before me". Dead easy, costs nowt, possibly saves lives, who can say?
As an aside: when I passed my DVLC driving test, my examiner commented that I was 'too timid'.
Several years of riding motorcycles, driving taxis, minibuses, hearses, limos and armoured vans sorted THAT out....
Then I bought a TVR... 
Ian
As for the 'running-commentary' routine: you can do it yourself. Simply think as you're driving along: "What are the potential hazards before me". Dead easy, costs nowt, possibly saves lives, who can say?
As an aside: when I passed my DVLC driving test, my examiner commented that I was 'too timid'.
Several years of riding motorcycles, driving taxis, minibuses, hearses, limos and armoured vans sorted THAT out....
Then I bought a TVR... Ian
Another vote for 1stlotus here - its not lotus only, he has a www.carlimits.com site to try and not put off other marques, he just started with lotus and drives one himself.
He's an IAM instructor and used to work in formula one. The airfield training he will teach oversteer/understeer (slip angles, balancing with throttle/steering wheel inputs), proper steering wheel technique (i.e. not the BSM shuffle, but rotational steering), heal toe, left foot braking, spin control (i.e. aiming the car when its spinning), and various other stuff.
I've been twice and haven't got to left foot breaking yet (which isn't a road appropriate technique anyway, its also bloody hard to do well, there are plenty of very good racing drivers who can't do it well enough to use it racing).
You need your own car though, but its only about 120-130 quid for a day.
He does do IAM training too I believe, which is undoubtedly worthwhile, but that may only be in Wales
His airfield stuff is in Essex (North Weald). >> Edited by DanH on Saturday 25th January 12:42
Hopefully I can help by dispelling a few myths and proving some info.
I coach advanced driving for the IAM, hold a Gold Award from RoSPA and am a member of the High Performance Club. (Plus I'm a DIAmond Advanced Motorist and have attended an executive protection course at the Bondurant School that teaches US Special Forces.)
The IAM is a great starter for 10. I would highly recommend it, but don't stop here if you're keen. As Wedg1e alluded, it's far from a perfect test. (A test of perfection is the lesser known IAM Special Assessment, which may gain you police training.) IAM coaching comes from volunteers - knowlegeable but not all knowing. Smeagol mentioned having "hoops to jump through"; if anyone experiences this, please contact me and I will see if I can help.
Only HPC's John Lyon is all knowing
The IAM and RoSPA are cheap, a similar price and can give you access to cheaper insurance.
RoSPA is a league above the IAM. As Shoggoth1 said, an IAM pass equals a RoSPA Bronze. Progressing from the IAM to RoSPA Gold typically means keeping all the safety you learn at IAM or RoSPA Bronze/Silver level, but with a quicker drive and more overtaking guile. RoSPA may be more suited to Pistonheads as you'll learn how to drive safer and faster; Porsche use RoSPA for this reason.
You're very welcome to contact me and I will endeavour to help if I can.
I coach advanced driving for the IAM, hold a Gold Award from RoSPA and am a member of the High Performance Club. (Plus I'm a DIAmond Advanced Motorist and have attended an executive protection course at the Bondurant School that teaches US Special Forces.)
The IAM is a great starter for 10. I would highly recommend it, but don't stop here if you're keen. As Wedg1e alluded, it's far from a perfect test. (A test of perfection is the lesser known IAM Special Assessment, which may gain you police training.) IAM coaching comes from volunteers - knowlegeable but not all knowing. Smeagol mentioned having "hoops to jump through"; if anyone experiences this, please contact me and I will see if I can help.
Only HPC's John Lyon is all knowing
The IAM and RoSPA are cheap, a similar price and can give you access to cheaper insurance.
RoSPA is a league above the IAM. As Shoggoth1 said, an IAM pass equals a RoSPA Bronze. Progressing from the IAM to RoSPA Gold typically means keeping all the safety you learn at IAM or RoSPA Bronze/Silver level, but with a quicker drive and more overtaking guile. RoSPA may be more suited to Pistonheads as you'll learn how to drive safer and faster; Porsche use RoSPA for this reason.
You're very welcome to contact me and I will endeavour to help if I can.
The ultimate training can be obtained from John Lyon at HPC, from road driving to limit handling.
John Lyon is now the only coach with access to teach you how to drive on the [simulated] rain, snow and ice at the Motor Industry Research Association (MIRA) vehicle testing facilities.
John is the country's leading high performance driving coach. Amongst many things, he has been both head instructor at Snetterton and a police instructor. (His training can take you from whatever standard you may be to that required for membership of the High Performance Club.) John is a racer, not a cop... With success in rallying and international racing, as well as test driving, there isn't a technique he doesn't know. I think the current rate is £140-175 for one very full half-day. If you thought you were a quick road driver, you may think again. Check out www.hpc2001.co.uk although phone contact is best, as the web site hasn't been updated for a while.
HPC car insurance naturally includes track days, but interestingly includes any other member of HPC so that members can drive one anothers cars. (No bikes, unfortunately.) High Performance Club activities include the likes of ice driving with the Swedish police, as well as the usual UK road and track meets.
'Evo' ran a whole series of articles about John Lyon last year. Who do you think taught the 'Evo' staff?
John Lyon is now the only coach with access to teach you how to drive on the [simulated] rain, snow and ice at the Motor Industry Research Association (MIRA) vehicle testing facilities.
John is the country's leading high performance driving coach. Amongst many things, he has been both head instructor at Snetterton and a police instructor. (His training can take you from whatever standard you may be to that required for membership of the High Performance Club.) John is a racer, not a cop... With success in rallying and international racing, as well as test driving, there isn't a technique he doesn't know. I think the current rate is £140-175 for one very full half-day. If you thought you were a quick road driver, you may think again. Check out www.hpc2001.co.uk although phone contact is best, as the web site hasn't been updated for a while.
HPC car insurance naturally includes track days, but interestingly includes any other member of HPC so that members can drive one anothers cars. (No bikes, unfortunately.) High Performance Club activities include the likes of ice driving with the Swedish police, as well as the usual UK road and track meets.
'Evo' ran a whole series of articles about John Lyon last year. Who do you think taught the 'Evo' staff?
Mr huge ego,
Do IAM or Rospa mandate the BSM shuffle steering technique? I know the police still favour it against all reasonable sense, so I'm curious whether these organisations are a little more progressive.
Like others, I'm interested in IAM or Rospa but I don't want to unlearn techniques such as rotational steering or heal toe if they would prevent attaining the qualification. They may be race techniques, but they are sensible and it stuns me that the roadcraft course has only started to acknowledge rotational steering as a possible option in certain circumstances (having contested it was wrong for many years).
Dan
Just wanted to add that 1st lotus are considerably cheaper than John Lyon. Don't take that to mean the training is inferior, Andy could be charging more but wants to make the training available to as many people as possible. He can't run courses on MIRA mind, but he is very good. He was taught to left foot break by Jackie Stewart
>> Edited by DanH on Saturday 25th January 23:10
Talked to an instructor about IAM today. There are several reasons I'm no longer interested :
a) must use BSM shuffle steering (not rotational).
b) may not change gear whilst breaking (no heal toe).
Just goes to show that whilst there may be some very good stuff in Roadcraft, there is also some complete crap as both the above techniques add safety and control.
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