Human rights convention - should we withdraw?
Discussion
So he's finally trying to fight his way out of the mess now is he? But is he going the right way about it?
Err what wealth!!!!
>>> Edited by Mrs Fish on Tuesday 28th January 09:41
Prime Minister Tony Blair has said the UK may have to re-examine its commitment to the European Convention on Human Rights if his government's policies to stop the flow of illegal immigrants failed.
Mr Blair described the present situation as "unacceptable" and said the government would push through new measures to stem the flow of illegal immigrants in the UK if they were needed.
The key to solving the problem, Mr Blair said, was to "substantially" reduce the number of applicants, because under the current convention asylum seekers cannot be sent back to a country where they might be subjected to torture.
Conservative leader Iain Duncan Smith said the government had got itself in a "terrible mess" over the asylum issue which was now "out of control".
Here are two comments from people off the BBC website:
1. Have we forgotten our history lessons we had at school? How did Britain become so rich? It reaped in resources from its Empire. Or should I say stole from countries and continues to do so. Is it not our time to pay back by allowing asylum seekers and refugees access to our wealth?
Dave Wilson, England
2. Too right we should! We are being overrun by asylum seekers. It's time something was done to stop it and it's time the government started caring for the British public.
Claire, England
Err what wealth!!!!
>>> Edited by Mrs Fish on Tuesday 28th January 09:41
CarZee said: Well yes, but it'd happen by default if we withdrew from the EU altogether
No the ECHR was signed upto in the 1951, it is total separate fom the EU, just happens to have an appeal court south east of Dover!
www.echr.coe.int/Eng/EDocs/HistoricalBackground.htm
The EU Court of Justice is
http://curia.eu.int/en/instit/presentationfr/index.htm
hmmmph.. this needs to be cleared up.. surely the 1951 agreement is the United Nations Convention on Human Rights (aka Geneva Convention?), this is not the same thing as the ECHR (European Charter.. ) which is a much more recent thing and is an integral part of the EU, tied to the Eupoean Court of Human Rights.. or am I wrong about this?
tvrgaas said: No the ECHR was signed upto in the 1951, it is total separate fom the EU, just happens to have an appeal court south east of Dover!
>> Edited by CarZee (moderator) on Tuesday 28th January 12:47
I would like to see a new draft of the treaty personalised for Britain, taking into account the concerns and situations specific to our selves.
The EU really need to realise that in a community of over 200 million souls, and a dozen or more cultures a single law or piece of legislation will not suit everyone.
The EU can act as a strategic body, while the details are put to together by individual states.
The EU really need to realise that in a community of over 200 million souls, and a dozen or more cultures a single law or piece of legislation will not suit everyone.
The EU can act as a strategic body, while the details are put to together by individual states.
Ok for information the two important treaty obligations are the:-
1) 1951 UN convention on human rights, which require signatories to accept any one claiming asylum to remain while their application in processed.
2) European Convention on Human Right (ECHR)1950 signature of which is a condition of membership of the EU law. Article 3 blocks deportation to a country where the deportee may suffer inhumane or degrading treatment. It has been found in that the death penalty is inhumane treatment. So if Bin Laden was caught in the UK he could not be extradited to the USA.
>> Edited by tonybav on Tuesday 28th January 13:39
1) 1951 UN convention on human rights, which require signatories to accept any one claiming asylum to remain while their application in processed.
2) European Convention on Human Right (ECHR)1950 signature of which is a condition of membership of the EU law. Article 3 blocks deportation to a country where the deportee may suffer inhumane or degrading treatment. It has been found in that the death penalty is inhumane treatment. So if Bin Laden was caught in the UK he could not be extradited to the USA.
>> Edited by tonybav on Tuesday 28th January 13:39
The key to solving the problem, Mr Blair said, was to "substantially" reduce the number of applicants, because under the current convention asylum seekers cannot be sent back to a country where they might be subjected to torture.
Why not send them to Australia they have loads of space and when it is discovered that they have a legal claim for asylum then we can let them in
Tounge firmly in cheek
>> Edited by cotty on Tuesday 28th January 13:52
LOOK AT THE PENSIONERS YOU MORONS!!! Obviously I think we should withdraw, but anyone against the idea should note that what would actually happen is that the government would temporarily withdraw from the treaty and then re-enter with some reservations which would allow us to chuck the bad guys out. All of the other countries signed up have reservations it's just us that don't. But we have to actually withdraw fully before we can sign up again with reservations, which is the sticking point for Blair. Interestingly Melanie Phillips wrote an excellant article suggesting all this a couple of weeks ago. Perhaps someone in the no. 10 reads the Mail after all.
The conservatives today announced that they would detain all asylum seekers until the security services were certain they posed know threat. ABOUT TIME! IDS also said that would make the neccessary changes with regard to 3 conventions to allow the government to deport undesirables. Hurray! That lad should run for primeminister!
The conservatives today announced that they would detain all asylum seekers until the security services were certain they posed know threat. ABOUT TIME! IDS also said that would make the neccessary changes with regard to 3 conventions to allow the government to deport undesirables. Hurray! That lad should run for primeminister!
and here it is...
cat women said: Interestingly Melanie Phillips wrote an excellant article suggesting all this a couple of weeks ago.
http://pws.prserv.net/mpjr/mp/dm200103.htm
And of course if you look in the smallprint of today's papers you will see a little note that the goverment has now stated that they didnt mean that they were pulling out of the two treaties in question, but that they will review their treaty obligations
No indication of timescale, no other clarification.
Media manipulation? Im sure the current government would never do anything like that, honest, but I would wager large sums of money that they take no action until after the next election at the earliest.
>> Edited by TheLemming on Tuesday 28th January 16:16
No indication of timescale, no other clarification.
Media manipulation? Im sure the current government would never do anything like that, honest, but I would wager large sums of money that they take no action until after the next election at the earliest.
>> Edited by TheLemming on Tuesday 28th January 16:16
As far as I understand it the AS have to claim asylum in the first country they land in after leaving their own. Hang on a minute the only possibility of this happening is if they were French or flew in directly from their own country, everyone else should be returned directly to the country from which they have just arrived!
Blair won't do any such thing, he's merely trying to calm the growing storm of protest from the indeginous peoples of this once Great Britain. He's worried about 1.votes and 2.backing for this soon to come war.
He's talking hot air, weren't they on about getting tough last year? They just merely introduce ineffective measures and quote bollox fiqures. HE DAREN'T do it, after all, half the Labour party are from the 3rd world or getting back handers from it for passports.
Question: How come Mandy Mandelson's Brazilian bum chum got to stay here? Hmmm I wonder.
Labour are corrupt, arrogant, lying , patronising and are trying to destroy this countries heritage (spelling? Who cares!) At least the Conservatives were patriotic and openly corrupt.
And if the west hadn't colonised these countries, they wouldn't have half of the technology they now have. They wouldn't have the schools, medical services or even the motorcar! Every single African country which gained independance after world war 2 has been at war one way or the other since.(Angola should be one of the richest countries in the world due to it's mineral wealth) Anyway, if we hadn't had gone over there, all the British ethnic desended people living here now, wouldn't exsist!
SO STOP MOANING AND BE GRATEFUL YOU'RE ALIVE AND LIVING IN SUCH A HALF DESCENT LAND (It even gives out loads of benefits)
I'm going into politics! God save the Queen, even though I am atheist!
He's talking hot air, weren't they on about getting tough last year? They just merely introduce ineffective measures and quote bollox fiqures. HE DAREN'T do it, after all, half the Labour party are from the 3rd world or getting back handers from it for passports.
Question: How come Mandy Mandelson's Brazilian bum chum got to stay here? Hmmm I wonder.
Labour are corrupt, arrogant, lying , patronising and are trying to destroy this countries heritage (spelling? Who cares!) At least the Conservatives were patriotic and openly corrupt.
And if the west hadn't colonised these countries, they wouldn't have half of the technology they now have. They wouldn't have the schools, medical services or even the motorcar! Every single African country which gained independance after world war 2 has been at war one way or the other since.(Angola should be one of the richest countries in the world due to it's mineral wealth) Anyway, if we hadn't had gone over there, all the British ethnic desended people living here now, wouldn't exsist!
SO STOP MOANING AND BE GRATEFUL YOU'RE ALIVE AND LIVING IN SUCH A HALF DESCENT LAND (It even gives out loads of benefits)
I'm going into politics! God save the Queen, even though I am atheist!
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