Incompetent government departments – rant alert
Discussion
When I moved abroad 9 months ago I gave the VAT man my new overseas address and let him know what I was up to. Since then I’ve had a letter sent to my old address that then got forwarded to my overseas address (arrived over a month later) asking where I was and what I was doing. OK… people make mistakes so I politely reply stating my new address again and answering their questions. A couple of months later I get the same standard letter again sent to my old address – forwarded on. This time I send them back a rather curt letter with a copy of my previous letter referring to that. I also went to the trouble of sending them a letter with the cheque for my last VAT return giving a breakdown of the figures since they seemed unable to get a standard VAT return form to my new address despite repeated requests – so AFAIK I don’t owe them any money.
Tonight I get an email from the tenants at my old address (a mild mannered Danish couple) saying two VAT men TURNED UP ON THEIR DOOR STEP UNANNOUNCED looking for me and asking if they had my contact details
. Apparently they looked “very grim”. The poor sods didn’t know what to do and weren’t sure if I was doing something dodgy and maybe they should not give them my contact details – hence the email. I quickly put them straight on this and told them to go ahead and give them my contact details. I’ll also be on the phone to the VAT office first thing tomorrow morning sticking a rocket up someone’s a*se and lighting it. God help the poor sod that happens to pick up the phone to me 
.
FFS !!! What is it with government departments in the UK ? Are they entirely populated with anally retentive morons who can’t organise a p*ss up in a brewery ?
(don’t answer that) !!! The worst thing about this is that the old house is in a really gossipy street so the rumour’s probably already doing the run around that I’ve done a bunk abroad without paying the VAT man and he’s after me.
Any comments on a suggested plan of attack tomorrow ? Go in all guns blazing or should I do a Trojan horse: be very calm and polite, double-check all the facts with the person on the phone and once I have confirmed that they have made the almighty fcuk up that they have then go berserk at them ? Anyone else had experiences like this with them ?
Sorry – rant over now
Tonight I get an email from the tenants at my old address (a mild mannered Danish couple) saying two VAT men TURNED UP ON THEIR DOOR STEP UNANNOUNCED looking for me and asking if they had my contact details
. Apparently they looked “very grim”. The poor sods didn’t know what to do and weren’t sure if I was doing something dodgy and maybe they should not give them my contact details – hence the email. I quickly put them straight on this and told them to go ahead and give them my contact details. I’ll also be on the phone to the VAT office first thing tomorrow morning sticking a rocket up someone’s a*se and lighting it. God help the poor sod that happens to pick up the phone to me . FFS !!! What is it with government departments in the UK ? Are they entirely populated with anally retentive morons who can’t organise a p*ss up in a brewery ?
(don’t answer that) !!! The worst thing about this is that the old house is in a really gossipy street so the rumour’s probably already doing the run around that I’ve done a bunk abroad without paying the VAT man and he’s after me. Any comments on a suggested plan of attack tomorrow ? Go in all guns blazing or should I do a Trojan horse: be very calm and polite, double-check all the facts with the person on the phone and once I have confirmed that they have made the almighty fcuk up that they have then go berserk at them ? Anyone else had experiences like this with them ?
Sorry – rant over now
Make sure you take the person's name that you talk to & also ask for their manager's name. I always find that gives me the best service when dealing with beaurocratic buffoons.
Then talk to their manager & do the same with them
Also write down the time & date that you talked to them.
Then talk to their manager & do the same with them
Also write down the time & date that you talked to them.
CraigAlsop said: Make sure you take the person's name that you talk to & also ask for their manager's name. I always find that gives me the best service when dealing with beaurocratic buffoons.
Then talk to their manager & do the same with them
Also write down the time & date that you talked to them.
Nah - this isn't a business you're dealing with, it's another dysfunctional organ of the State - everything the state touches turns into utter sh1t - it's the Midas touch in reverse.
FFS !!! What is it with government departments in the UK ? Are they entirely populated with anally retentive morons who can’t organise a p*ss up in a brewery ?
Sorry - will have to answer that and the the answer is a definitive YES! A mate of mine had recently started working at Customs & Excise and he's already making enemies. Why? Because he believes in working for his wages and doing his job properly. Without any effort he did 'half a days work' in under an hour and is consequently showing everyone else up. He's already been promoted three times since he started about 6 months ago! He says the endemic appathy and 'who gives a f**k attitude' is unbelievable. Never mind the politicians, these are the real villains who are f**king over this country
A large proportion of my mates are civil servants. They all believe in a job for life and lazy days of doing f all, combined with lots of time off and a juicy pension at the end of it. It makes my blood boil to hear them discuss the exciting work they are doing.... Those that can, do. Those that can't, end up working for the CS.
Start politely, and gradually build up to annoyed. Don't be abusive, it'll get nowhere.
In a letter, one word in CAPITALS, or an !exclamation mark! will usually get it referred higher up the complaints ladder.
Ah teh joys of having a mother working in customer services. Insurance's only growth area!
In a letter, one word in CAPITALS, or an !exclamation mark! will usually get it referred higher up the complaints ladder.
Ah teh joys of having a mother working in customer services. Insurance's only growth area!
One in four people are now employed by the government. How many totally fecking useless spastards are there in any given average population?
What are the chances of ineptitude going unpunished when everyone is being paid with someone else's money?
Can you guess what it is yet? :rolfysmilie:
What are the chances of ineptitude going unpunished when everyone is being paid with someone else's money?
Can you guess what it is yet? :rolfysmilie:
I have often found when asking to be reffered to the manager or department supervisor you often get passed to the tea lady or bog cleaner, whoever they are they more often than not have little, or no more responsibility and power then the previous person you spoke to?? Even worse is when you get passed onto the callers mate pretending to be the supervisor so as the two idiots can try and get out of trouble.
This is the major problem with not only governments but big faceless corporations, they often don't give a stuff about about the customer, so long as they get their money on time.
They usually have horrendously complex complaints procedures to try and stop you from making a complaint, and if you do succeed in getting their backs up, you are faced with a corporation/Government that has millions of pounds at its disposal to fight legal cases??
This is the major problem with not only governments but big faceless corporations, they often don't give a stuff about about the customer, so long as they get their money on time.
They usually have horrendously complex complaints procedures to try and stop you from making a complaint, and if you do succeed in getting their backs up, you are faced with a corporation/Government that has millions of pounds at its disposal to fight legal cases??
ALL government departments whether in GB or anywhere else in Europe are populated by anally retentive shitehawks. The only way to nail these barstewards is to do everything (important) via registered post!
I recently had such an instance and then wrote my reply to the head of the department personnally, by registered post, telling them that I awaited a reply by dated xxxx, copy to my lawyer for action on date xxxx plus 1. To say the proverbial faeces hit the propellor would be putting it mildly! The speed which the shit hit the lower orders after having dropped through 6 storeys was almost astronomic. Needless to say it only had a short effect, but salutory! But they got the *uck-up sorted!
I recently had such an instance and then wrote my reply to the head of the department personnally, by registered post, telling them that I awaited a reply by dated xxxx, copy to my lawyer for action on date xxxx plus 1. To say the proverbial faeces hit the propellor would be putting it mildly! The speed which the shit hit the lower orders after having dropped through 6 storeys was almost astronomic. Needless to say it only had a short effect, but salutory! But they got the *uck-up sorted!
Hi,
The IR can be a pain, but perhaps they may be getting themselves into a knot as you are a Non Resident Landlord NRL.
Have you complited a NRL1 form applying for exemption from paying 23% tax on your rent profit? (different from vat) its a way the IR have of making sure your UK tax affairs are uptodate.
The NRL tax is different from VAT.
If not you, your tenants/letting agents are liable to pay this if the IR cant or dont want to chase you.
The NRL help line is 0151 472 6208
the help line staff are quite helpfull as opposed to the the tax inspectors are not very.
Hope this may help.
>> Edited by superlightr on Thursday 30th January 09:16
>> Edited by superlightr on Thursday 30th January 09:17
The IR can be a pain, but perhaps they may be getting themselves into a knot as you are a Non Resident Landlord NRL.
Have you complited a NRL1 form applying for exemption from paying 23% tax on your rent profit? (different from vat) its a way the IR have of making sure your UK tax affairs are uptodate.
The NRL tax is different from VAT.
If not you, your tenants/letting agents are liable to pay this if the IR cant or dont want to chase you.
The NRL help line is 0151 472 6208
the help line staff are quite helpfull as opposed to the the tax inspectors are not very.
Hope this may help.
>> Edited by superlightr on Thursday 30th January 09:16
>> Edited by superlightr on Thursday 30th January 09:17
Mate - I feel for you.
Rest assured your experience is not uncommon. But don't bother getting angry. It changes FA - and you run the risk of pi****g someone off who might decide you needed a nice long slow thorough audit. Get on the phone and ask for 'help'. Get an admission of guilt and then politely explain how 'dissappointed' (that's the very worst!) you are in their behaviour and competence on this occasion and how frightened and upset your tenants were.
In fact ask how you can complain about the intimidatory behaviour of the people who turned up - as a responsible landlord you need to ensure the safety of your tenants. You might even suggest that these individuals should not be employed to such work again etc etc.
And now...why do I sympathise so much.
The ***!*!***A@@! Revenue that's why. My company (which behaves as honestly as it is possible to do!) is populated solely with partners - all of whom are shareholders to a larger and smaller degree. So when we have money - we all get paid. When we don't have money - we get sod all. That's the deal, we signed up for it, no-one complains.
Except for the f*****g Revenue.
We pay ourselves PAYE - so they get the tax whenever we get paid. Its easier - and the breaks you used to get paying yourself divvies etc just aren't worth the hassle anymore.
Problem is - some months they get a load of money. Other months they get a "Nil Return". Every single f*****g time we send them a Nil return. THEY LOSE IT! Funny that. Then they make up a number that they WOULD LIKE US TO OWE THEM and they send us a bill. We then have to go through a load of bother, phone calls, faxes and letters to get their "system" to stop trying to collect money we don't owe them.
Before now we've had the Bailiffs turn up to sieze company assets - over a few grand that we don't owe them and have written to them to let them know we don't owe them several times.
We took to sending our "Nil Returns" registered post and requiring a signature.
Rest assured your experience is not uncommon. But don't bother getting angry. It changes FA - and you run the risk of pi****g someone off who might decide you needed a nice long slow thorough audit. Get on the phone and ask for 'help'. Get an admission of guilt and then politely explain how 'dissappointed' (that's the very worst!) you are in their behaviour and competence on this occasion and how frightened and upset your tenants were.
In fact ask how you can complain about the intimidatory behaviour of the people who turned up - as a responsible landlord you need to ensure the safety of your tenants. You might even suggest that these individuals should not be employed to such work again etc etc.
And now...why do I sympathise so much.
The ***!*!***A@@! Revenue that's why. My company (which behaves as honestly as it is possible to do!) is populated solely with partners - all of whom are shareholders to a larger and smaller degree. So when we have money - we all get paid. When we don't have money - we get sod all. That's the deal, we signed up for it, no-one complains.
Except for the f*****g Revenue.
We pay ourselves PAYE - so they get the tax whenever we get paid. Its easier - and the breaks you used to get paying yourself divvies etc just aren't worth the hassle anymore.
Problem is - some months they get a load of money. Other months they get a "Nil Return". Every single f*****g time we send them a Nil return. THEY LOSE IT! Funny that. Then they make up a number that they WOULD LIKE US TO OWE THEM and they send us a bill. We then have to go through a load of bother, phone calls, faxes and letters to get their "system" to stop trying to collect money we don't owe them.
Before now we've had the Bailiffs turn up to sieze company assets - over a few grand that we don't owe them and have written to them to let them know we don't owe them several times.
We took to sending our "Nil Returns" registered post and requiring a signature.
Sad isn't it..
Don said: We took to sending our "Nil Returns" registered post and requiring a signature.
Ever since I started running my own company, all communications with C&E and IR have been by special delivery with consequential loss insurance.. ain't worth the risk of not doing. I'd rather spend a fiver that's deductable on postage than risk an inquisition or some unnecessary heavy handedness as you illustrated.
[
] I've said it before about the civil service.. it should be disbanded and rebuilt from scratch.. there are too many power freaks, closet traffic wardens, leeches and loafers in its ranks for it to ever be effective..
Because of the snivel service, it doesn't matter who's in power.. we'd not notice much difference if Saddam
Hussain was Prime Minister because of the unaccountably intransigent, self serving, inept and deceitful way in which much of the civil service operates. [/
]Many calls of this nature are recorded and the operators actions on the systems likewise recorded and audited. There are particular departments that will not give you the name of the operator, (security/personal safety reasons), likewise you often can't get a direct dial number for the person you spoke to. However, you should always be able to get a unique ID number for the call. Note the time, name if you can get it and the call ID number. Send whatever you need to with proof of posting and thats about all you can do I am afraid..
OK… just got off the phone to the VAT man (well woman actually).
I managed to get the name of the woman who came round and phoned her directly. I explained who I was and she immediately recognised the name and goes to me… “Ah yes… I was looking at this, this morning… (long pause) so perhaps you could explain to us what is going on ?” F**k me I nearly ate the telephone handset !!! I phone up to find out why they’re knocking on my door when I’ve given them my new address four times and I’m asked to explain myself !!! J*sus wept !
So I politely explain to her (whilst munching on the last remains of my bottom lip) that I would like an explanation as to why they turned up on my old doorstep looking for me when they already have my new address (believe it or not I am now actually receiving things at the correct address since this all started).
She then explains very matter of factly that they went to my old address because they were still sending me letters there and were getting returned mail so popped round to find out what was happening. She still had my old address on file. How one department has my correct address but another does not is beyond me… no it’s not… this is the civil service.
So I tell her I’ve sent them my new address four times. Next I get some sob story about how their systems are all being converted from paper to electronic systems, everything’s getting lost and it’s just hell there at the moment. “…you wouldn’t believe what it’s like working here at the moment.” she says. Wanna bet ??? There’s a cage at London zoo full of monkeys I bet that’s a pretty good match for a start. Anyway why do I give a t**s about their internal problems/incompetence ? Why should I suffer because of it ? And it goes on (sorry if I am too):
Ok sod it… just change the address and call it a day.
I’m sorry we can’t do that.
What ? You can’t ? Why not ?
It’s not a UK address. We can’t have a non-UK address as a registered VAT address, that’s why we still have your old address on the system.
I though you said it was because your office was in chaos because you were updating your systems and you’d lost it?
No, it’s because you can’t have a non-UK address as a VAT address.
Right… then why didn’t write to my non-UK address and tell me “sorry no good we need a UK address” ?
Because we didn’t have your non-UK address.
Eh ? But I sent it to you…
Yes but it’s chaos here at the moment, we’re updating our systems…
AAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!
I gave up after this. Anyway upshot is I have to find a UK brass plate address. I’ve also asked they send a letter of apology to my tenants for the inconvenience caused (gave them a real bleeding heart story about how intimidated they felt by the whole episode). Nope… not getting one. Well… we’ll see about that. I have her bosses name now. Said I’d write to him asking for a letter of apology. I really don’t know if I can be a*sed.
I managed to get the name of the woman who came round and phoned her directly. I explained who I was and she immediately recognised the name and goes to me… “Ah yes… I was looking at this, this morning… (long pause) so perhaps you could explain to us what is going on ?” F**k me I nearly ate the telephone handset !!! I phone up to find out why they’re knocking on my door when I’ve given them my new address four times and I’m asked to explain myself !!! J*sus wept !
So I politely explain to her (whilst munching on the last remains of my bottom lip) that I would like an explanation as to why they turned up on my old doorstep looking for me when they already have my new address (believe it or not I am now actually receiving things at the correct address since this all started).
She then explains very matter of factly that they went to my old address because they were still sending me letters there and were getting returned mail so popped round to find out what was happening. She still had my old address on file. How one department has my correct address but another does not is beyond me… no it’s not… this is the civil service.
So I tell her I’ve sent them my new address four times. Next I get some sob story about how their systems are all being converted from paper to electronic systems, everything’s getting lost and it’s just hell there at the moment. “…you wouldn’t believe what it’s like working here at the moment.” she says. Wanna bet ??? There’s a cage at London zoo full of monkeys I bet that’s a pretty good match for a start. Anyway why do I give a t**s about their internal problems/incompetence ? Why should I suffer because of it ? And it goes on (sorry if I am too):
Ok sod it… just change the address and call it a day.
I’m sorry we can’t do that.
What ? You can’t ? Why not ?
It’s not a UK address. We can’t have a non-UK address as a registered VAT address, that’s why we still have your old address on the system.
I though you said it was because your office was in chaos because you were updating your systems and you’d lost it?
No, it’s because you can’t have a non-UK address as a VAT address.
Right… then why didn’t write to my non-UK address and tell me “sorry no good we need a UK address” ?
Because we didn’t have your non-UK address.
Eh ? But I sent it to you…
Yes but it’s chaos here at the moment, we’re updating our systems…
AAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!
I gave up after this. Anyway upshot is I have to find a UK brass plate address. I’ve also asked they send a letter of apology to my tenants for the inconvenience caused (gave them a real bleeding heart story about how intimidated they felt by the whole episode). Nope… not getting one. Well… we’ll see about that. I have her bosses name now. Said I’d write to him asking for a letter of apology. I really don’t know if I can be a*sed.
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