Power Seering in TVR's...WTF?

[Mad Jock]

Let's face it, TVR's are supposed to epitomise the "hairy chested British sportscar", aren't they? I bought mine without even asking if it had PAS, as I (stupidly) assumed that it was not an option. Peter Wheeler was once quoted as saying that he would not dilute driver input with his designs. I should say that my Chimaera does not have PAS, and for the life of me I cannot see why it would need it. Looking through various classified ads I am horrified to see how many TVR's are offered with PAS.
FFS, are TVR owners becoming a little limp wristed, perhaps just a little light on their loafers?
There is no way that any TVR needs this affront to manhood. I find the steering effort and feedback just about right, so I fail to understand why anyone could want this option. Any comments?

>>> Edited by Mad Jock on Sunday 16th February 17:55

[Agent006]

...becasue we don't all want to be manly all the time. The same reason the accelerator isn't a binary device.

[flasher]

I used to think this way...

But then I drove a TVR with Power steering and it does make a massive difference. There is no way I'd have one without PAS now and to be honest there aren't many people who want one without power steering....It now comes as standard on all TVR's.

It's got nothing to do with how "manly" you are, it just makes the car more responsive and better to drive, let alone easier to park...

[angusfaldo]

Mine's not got PAS. I wish it had. Then my Missis would be inclined to drive the car and I'd get a chance to have a beer down the pub. As it is, the non-PAS car is a bitch to park and she just hasn't got the upper body strength to do it. Hence I do all the driving.


I recently drove a Griff with PAS and it was bliss, shere bliss.

[Mad Jock]

On the plus side, it's one less thing to go wrong!
Anyway, PAS does not make the car more responsive, that's down to the tyres and suspension, it just makes it easier to twirl the steering wheel. It only makes it more responsive if the driver inputs were feeble in the first place.
Perhaps my upper body strength is, while not great, better than others. I spent 7 years in the eighties as drill crew on Semi-submersible rigs, as roughneck and derrickman. I guess I just got used to chucking heavy things around.
However, who am I to judge, as I haven't tried one fitted with PAS yet, so perhaps I should just shut up and keep an open mind until then.

[sps]

I have to say that I did not want PAS on my TVR and I'm pleased that I did not.
Lets face it a TVR is supposed to be a pure driving experience! No ABS, no traction control, no airbags a 1,000 Kgs, a minimum of 4ltrs and rear wheel drive. No PAS for me, it seems to be out of place!!!
In many ways less is in fact more.
Cheers
SPS

[Agent006]

Mad Jock said:so perhaps I should just shut up and keep an open mind until then.

As with all things to all people

[.Mark]

Interesting discussion. When test driving TVR's prior to buying we tried both PAS and non-PAS. Now being the nancy company car driving fool that I am, I enjoy things like PAS/ABS/Climate Control etc. etc. etc. but the TVR just didn't feel right to me with PAS.
However as both me and the wife would be driving it I let her have the last say. Well she went for non-PAS, said the car felt better and seemed more in tune with her driving style, and as for parking, as long as the wheels are turning (however slowly) the steering is not too heavy.

[guysh]

Agent006 said: ...The same reason the accelerator isn't a binary device.

My old chap always says to my brother and I - '...It's either full throttle with you two or full stop!'

[pbrettle]

Mines got PAS and I am glad of it. Personally, I didnt want to have a car that I cant use as much as possible. Low speed driving without PAS is a nightmare (and I am no 9 stone weakling) - just wanted to be able to use it no matter what. I would hate to have a car that I cant drive because I just dont fancy the wrestling match drive....

Anyway, more likely to use / need PAS on a daily basis rather than the extra feel of a non-PAS car at high speed handling...

Cheers,

Paul

[nubbin]

When I go through puddles in my 1989 BMW, the water makes the PAS pump belt slip, and I lose power steering - it then becomes almost impossible to drag the car round corners at slow speeds, and illustrates the difference it makes. The new electric PAS on the Tamora is fantastic, and does not in any way dilute the road feel through the steering. But it does make driving the car a lot more pleasant. If you want to have aching shoulders and arms at the end of every TVR drive, fine, but this non-PAS macho bullshit is just that, and little else.

[joospeed]

did you specifiy the non-servo drum brakes option and manual wind-up windows too? sounds like you should have ...

[kevinday]

Mad Jock said: On the plus side, it's one less thing to go wrong!
Anyway, PAS does not make the car more responsive, that's down to the tyres and suspension, it just makes it easier to twirl the steering wheel.

Not quite true Jock, if it is a Griffith or Chimaera, the PAS steering rack was a different rack with less turns lock to lock, and is more responsive because of this.



>> Edited by kevinday on Monday 17th February 09:40

[alt]

sps said: Lets face it a TVR is supposed to be a pure driving experience! No ABS, no traction control, no airbags a 1,000 Kgs, a minimum of 4ltrs and rear wheel drive.

And the Tamora's, Tuscan's and T350's 3.6l engines?

[shadowninja]

dont see what the problem is with non-PAS. My Chimaera doesn't have it and I feel its part of the overall experience. After hopping from any car into the TVR I feel "alive" again. Parking isn't a problem either... just make sure the wheels are rolling and you can turn the steering wheel (besides isn't turning a PAS-assisted steering wheel without moving the wheels bad for the PAS system?).

Oh and I'm no muscle-bound meathead either. Proud to be a pen-pusher, me!

[andytk]

joospeed said: did you specifiy ... and manual wind-up windows too? sounds like you should have ...

Oi you!

I Like wind up windows. Less to go wrong and lighter too. Plus you can have cool aluminium cranks as well if you want.

Andy

[sps]

alt said:

sps said: Lets face it a TVR is supposed to be a pure driving experience! No ABS, no traction control, no airbags a 1,000 Kgs, a minimum of 4ltrs and rear wheel drive.

And the Tamora's, Tuscan's and T350's 3.6l engines?

No T's for me, just V8's thank you!!
Yes the T's are great cars but in my book it's all about the wonderful V8 rumble and the hood down, listen to de music!!
SPS

[350matt]

One of the main reasons I fitted PAS to my wedge was I'd had several occasions when I had an armful of opposite lock on and it occurred to me 'If I need any more than this I won't be able to do it time...'
the important word there is 'time', PAS racks are usually higher geared and allow a faster rate of steering response all the better to catch a slide .
And if its done correctly you lose very little feel over a manual system.

Matt

[GreenV8S]

350matt said: One of the main reasons I fitted PAS to my wedge was I'd had several occasions when I had an armful of opposite lock on and it occurred to me 'If I need any more than this I won't be able to do it time...'

When I started sprinting I used to find the first armful of opposite lock was pretty instinctive and then I sort of ran out of elbows and couldn't figure out what to do in the heat of the moment, so my response slowed down a lot at that point. More often than not I would be too slow if it needed more than half a turn or so. But now I've trained myself to keep piling on the lock until it catches, or I bail out, I don't have that problem any more. (Lots of other problems, but not that particular one.) In terms of speed of response, I find I never need opposite lock unless the car is sliding and the steering is very light, and there's no problem twirling the wheel as fast as necessary. It takes about half a second to hit the lock stop and the same again to take the lock off again.