Safety Lentlists Demand Bikers Pay Ken Charge.
Discussion
some statements of the bleedin obvious in here and some clarification of what exactly the Congestion Charge is actually all about... cash.
www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-581965,00.html
So after people have spend thousands on bikes, lessons, kit, insurance etc they'll be back to square one.
just remember - a turd in a Jiffy bag to Ken - don't worry about a stamp - he'll have to pay that when he receives your parcel
www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-581965,00.html
So let me get this right (you fcukers...). You create the congestion charge to reduce the number of cars, hence reducing hold-ups. You give exemption to bikes & scooters.. then you charge bikes & scooters because their increasing numbers is leading to increased accidents (which even Prescott could have figured out!!)? Brilliant.
Motorcyclists 'should have to pay as well'
ROAD-SAFETY campaigners yesterday urged Ken Livingstone to force motorcyclists and scooter riders to pay the congestion charge after a sharp rise in the number entering Central London.
The RAC said road cameras showed that the drop in cars had been accompanied by a significant increase in people commuting on two wheels to avoid paying the £5 daily toll.
Living Streets, formerly known as the Pedestrians’ Association, said congestion charging would indirectly lead to many more road casualties as inexperienced riders swapped their cars for scooters.
Phillip Connolly, Living Streets’ London manager, said: “You are eight times more likely to be knocked down by a motorcyclist than a car in Central London.
“Giving them exemption from the charge only encourages people to jump on to scooters with not the slightest basic safety training. They are a danger both to themselves and pedestrians as they cut inside vehicles and accelerate very quickly, giving people little time to get out of the way.”
The number of deaths in London of motorcyclists and scooter riders soared from 25 in 1995 to 71 in 2001. Bikers account for about 20 per cent of all deaths and serious injuries on London’s roads but only 2 per cent of journeys.
But the Motor Cycle Industry Association said the rise in deaths was the product of an even greater rise in motorcycle use in London. Just under 20,000 motorcycles, scooters and mopeds were bought in London in 2002, compared with 5,400 in 1993.
An association spokesman said: “The casualty rate masks the fact there has been a drop in the number of accidents per mile travelled. People dislike motorcycles because they see them as dirty, noisy, smelly and dangerous. But that view becomes self-fulfilling because policymakers react by failing to invest in making motorcycling safer.”
Brake, the road safety charity, said that the extra money raised from charging motorcyclists could be devoted to reducing road deaths.
A spokesman said: “Bikers and scooter riders should probably be included in the charge because road safety measures are woefully underfunded. The more money that is made available to save people’s lives, the better.”
Transport for London (TfL) said it would be “watching accident levels very closely”, but needed to see how the trend unfolded over several months of congestion charging. TfL has already spent £800,000 on a cinema advertising campaign urging drivers to remain alert to the dangers of colliding with motorcyclists.
So after people have spend thousands on bikes, lessons, kit, insurance etc they'll be back to square one.
just remember - a turd in a Jiffy bag to Ken - don't worry about a stamp - he'll have to pay that when he receives your parcel
It has also launched a pilot scheme allowing bikers to use bus lanes on three routes in London. Motorcyclists are lobbying for free access to all bus lanes, which have spread along many routes since Mr Livingstone was elected in 2000. Peter Hendy, TfL’s bus director, said dozens more bus lanes would be introduced over the next two years, particularly in congested suburban centres around Greater London such as Harrow, Barking and Ilford.
“The next tranches of bus priority schemes will be more controversial because they will mean real reductions in road space for cars,” he said.
Mr Livingstone said that he would consider this summer whether the congestion charge zone would be widened. No changes in the boundary are expected before the mayoral elections in May next year, but Mr Livingstone may propose a major extension in his manifesto.
He said: “There is quite a lot of pressure from people in Kensington, Westminster and Tower Hamlets to include them in the zone. That’s about the maximum area the technology could handle.”
The extra sums raised from widening the scheme are likely to be limited because thousands of drivers now paying the full £5 to enter the zone would be entitled to a 90 per cent residents’ discount.
More than 30 other towns and cities, including Edinburgh, Bristol and Birmingham, have expressed interest in charging schemes for motorists, but are expected to wait to see whether the London scheme proves a success.
More than 30 other towns and cities, including Edinburgh, Bristol and Birmingham, have expressed interest in charging schemes for motorists, but are expected to wait to see whether the London scheme proves a success
All Bristol will need to see decide whether its a success is the total amount of revenue raised... Ker'ching!
Bunch of fuc**n idiots
.
If there's less traffic around there are fewer cars to knock people off their bikes. Bikers not going to use the pavements cos there's so much free tarmac. And pedestrians shouldn't be walking across roads without looking. There's no justification for including bikes in the charge at all.
Bunch of money grabbing wan£er$
. If there's less traffic around there are fewer cars to knock people off their bikes. Bikers not going to use the pavements cos there's so much free tarmac. And pedestrians shouldn't be walking across roads without looking. There's no justification for including bikes in the charge at all.
Bunch of money grabbing wan£er$
Phillip Connolly, Living Streets’ London manager, said: “You are eight times more likely to be knocked down by a motorcyclist than a car in Central London.
You what? A motorcyclist is eight times more likely to have an accident than a car, that is a statistic I believe I've heard before. FFS, there are MANY more four-wheelers on the streets than there are motorbikes and last I heard motorbikes were a little more manoeuvrable (and generally more observant) than cars.
Giving them exemption from the charge only encourages people to jump on to scooters with not the slightest basic safety training. They are a danger both to themselves and pedestrians as they cut inside vehicles and accelerate very quickly, giving people little time to get out of the way.”
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the difference is you wont hit pedestrians on a bike, cuz you fall off as well, so pedestrians are safer.
"there smelly" ---- less than a car with a cat, there less pollutant, and use less natural resources (petrol)
these arguements are suggesting we stay in cars even tho they are worse than bikes! makes no sense!!!
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the difference is you wont hit pedestrians on a bike, cuz you fall off as well, so pedestrians are safer.
"there smelly" ---- less than a car with a cat, there less pollutant, and use less natural resources (petrol)
these arguements are suggesting we stay in cars even tho they are worse than bikes! makes no sense!!!
Yep, as usual more anti-bike sh1te from tossers who've never been near one. Errr... the Guvmint, that is, not you lot... !
I rode bikes for years and I swear it made me abetter car driver. Only the other night I dodged an Asian-driven taxi that was doing (in my estimation, only based on 22 years of drivng, mind you) 60+ through a junction in a 30 limit due to the fact that I have cat-like reactions brought on by dodging numpties in cars who don't use their mirrors or indicators.
Christ knows how the poor sods feel who occasionally manage to find someone in the Govt. with enough brain cells to listen to the pro-bike argument, only for crap like this to emanate from the sphincter of westminster. I won't even dignify the place with a capital letter...
Ian
I rode bikes for years and I swear it made me abetter car driver. Only the other night I dodged an Asian-driven taxi that was doing (in my estimation, only based on 22 years of drivng, mind you) 60+ through a junction in a 30 limit due to the fact that I have cat-like reactions brought on by dodging numpties in cars who don't use their mirrors or indicators.
Christ knows how the poor sods feel who occasionally manage to find someone in the Govt. with enough brain cells to listen to the pro-bike argument, only for crap like this to emanate from the sphincter of westminster. I won't even dignify the place with a capital letter...
Ian
Im glad i live nowhere near london , and im in no particular hurry to go there either all they want to do is screw you for driving in london just think of all that ££££ they made on the 1st day , so we should be seeing improvements in public transport pretty damn quickly , or will the money misteriously dissapear in to back pockets 
CarZee said:no, I think you'll find people people here bought bikes for 0-100-0 in <10 secs and top whack of >175mph all for less than 10k
s2ooz said:as anyone here actually bought a bike due to congestion charges?
I did
if they are worried about getting run over let them fit race cans people tend hear you coming Actually, thinking about it, why are alternative fuels exempt?
Can you drive through a car that is alternatively fuelled? Didnt think so, so they get in buses etc way just like the rest of the cars on the road.
Call it pollution charging or motorists tax if you like but this is bollocks.
Matt.
Can you drive through a car that is alternatively fuelled? Didnt think so, so they get in buses etc way just like the rest of the cars on the road.
Call it pollution charging or motorists tax if you like but this is bollocks.
Matt.
CarZee, I'm disappointed in you... reprinting shameless twaddle with hardly a grain of truth in it is not your style at all! The above article is mostly stuff and nonsense written by people who don't know the first thing about motorcycles. As is being proved by the bikers - and especially London bikers- who are posting to this thread!
raceboy said:
s2ooz said:as anyone here actually bought a bike due to congestion charges?
Or even crazier has anyone gone out and bought a 9 seater?
Or had an LPG tank fitted, or a big battery
Guilty! Have LPG, but got it coz of the half price fuel rather than to avoid congestion charging.
Yep.. lazy day.. lol..
bruce fielding said: CarZee, I'm disappointed in you... reprinting shameless twaddle with hardly a grain of truth in it is not your style at all!!
Anyway - it's not like I portrayed the work as my own.
Obviously the article's written with a slant, but perhaps you could point out what you consider untrue or misleading?
raceboy said:
s2ooz said:as anyone here actually bought a bike due to congestion charges?
Or even crazier has anyone gone out and bought a 9 seater?
Or had an LPG tank fitted, or a big battery
but surely if the lpgers get in free then an lpg system would pay for itself in less than a year in saved tolls alone, let alone half price fuel. also - iirc isnt there some sort of grant that you can get to have the system fitted cheaply to a car as long as its under 3 years old? in this case would it not be a good idea to just get the system fitted regardless of whether you use it or not?
There was a piece in last Sundays Times Driving section about how to get around the charge, and I think you can get 50% back of the goverment for the LPG install or the difference between a standard petrol car and a manufacturers LPG model, as usual conditions apply so check the small print before you fit LPG to a Cerbera as not all cars qualify for the discount or the CC exemption
Never heard of them!
Living Streets, formerly known as the Pedestrians’ Association...
Never heard this stat in my life before - it's balderdash!
Phillip Connolly, Living Streets’ London manager, said: “You are eight times more likely to be knocked down by a motorcyclist than a car in Central London.
More balderdash. CBT is essential if buying from a dealer and only a darwin-inspired self destructor would take to two wheels without having some training
"Giving them exemption from the charge only encourages people to jump on to scooters with not the slightest basic safety training. They are a danger both to themselves and pedestrians as they cut inside vehicles and accelerate very quickly, giving people little time to get out of the way.”
Spun stats. proportionately fewer bikers died in the same period as there were more bikers. Most biker deatrhs are caused by car drivers who don't look out for bikes (hence the training - aimed at drivers!).
The number of deaths in London of motorcyclists and scooter riders soared from 25 in 1995 to 71 in 2001. Bikers account for about 20 per cent of all deaths and serious injuries on London’s roads but only 2 per cent of journeys.
Which 'People'? No one I know...
People dislike motorcycles because they see them as dirty, noisy, smelly and dangerous.
More nonsense. Official figures proves that more is spent on rider training today than ever before (I just made that up, but logic says it has to be true.)
But that view becomes self-fulfilling because policymakers react by failing to invest in making motorcycling safer.”
not the use of the word 'could' and who the hell are Brake? Part of the lot at the top? Never heard of them either.
Brake, the road safety charity, said that the extra money raised from charging motorcyclists could be devoted to reducing road deaths.
Ahh, Mr A. Spokesman. Now we're talking real experts! Analyse what he says and there's nothing to disagree with... because he's saying nothing.
A spokesman said: “Bikers and scooter riders should probably be included in the charge because road safety measures are woefully underfunded. The more money that is made available to save people’s lives, the better.”
TfL has already spent £800,000 on a cinema advertising campaign urging drivers to remain alert to the dangers of colliding with motorcyclists.
QED
Enough?
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