Thatcher's Britain - how was it for you?
Discussion
What with a series on Maggie Thatcher starting tonight on ITV, it got me thinking about the old gel and what she did for this country. She did quite a bit - definitely the most influential leader of the country since the war shaking up the unions once and for all, instilling a sense of belief in people, creating the market conditions which encouraged entrepreneurs and beating up the Argies. 
However, she also created massive unrest amongst the 'working classes', all but killed the manufacturing industry, brought about an increase in the north/south divide and alienated vast numbers of the population. And eventually was seen off by her own side.
Her influence is still around today as we all know, and a lot of PHers would have been like me, starting out in work in the early '80s when she was in her pomp. I voted for her, twice. She was vilified at the end but do we not now need a strong leader in her mould? Cos IDS ain't her ...
:couldn'tbringmeselftovoteforthewelshwindbag:
Whether we like it, or even realise it, her polices affected YOUR upbringing - made it easier or otherwise.
And me and MaggieT have the same initials ...
However, she also created massive unrest amongst the 'working classes', all but killed the manufacturing industry, brought about an increase in the north/south divide and alienated vast numbers of the population. And eventually was seen off by her own side.
Her influence is still around today as we all know, and a lot of PHers would have been like me, starting out in work in the early '80s when she was in her pomp. I voted for her, twice. She was vilified at the end but do we not now need a strong leader in her mould? Cos IDS ain't her ...
:couldn'tbringmeselftovoteforthewelshwindbag:
Whether we like it, or even realise it, her polices affected YOUR upbringing - made it easier or otherwise.
And me and MaggieT have the same initials ...
MikeyT, I agree with what you have posted, it is also interesting to note that her successor, John Major, did not lose the next election so she could not have alienated that many voters. John Major was also a very good leader, his problem (IMO) was lack of charisma.
I personally think she was the best leader this country has had since I have been old enough to care (43 now). Tony B Liar is rapidly heading towards top of my worst leader list.
I personally think she was the best leader this country has had since I have been old enough to care (43 now). Tony B Liar is rapidly heading towards top of my worst leader list.
Profitable. Policies of the Thatcher government resulted in the boom-bust economic cycle accelerating. As one of my businesses in the time was renting property out in Notting Hill (which in the late 70s was still full of bedsits and hookers)and I did well from the boom in property prices brought about by the rapid expansion of many city companies. Unfortunately the boom was totally unsustainable. The housing market was artificially inflated with tax breaks that were, inevitably, going to have to be revoked eventually and interest rates were at a level that made no economic sense (just like now).
Whilst I am not a proponent of tax and spend, tax as little as possible and trust everything to the market was the economics of the madhouse. Thatcher and Clarke were largely responsible for the destruction of the NHS, the railways and the steel industry and, through right to buy, they sowed the seeds of a housing market were relatively well paid, essential workers cannot afford to house their families, even outside the south-east.
The problem with Thatcher is that of most right-wing governments, the rich get richer, the poor get screwed. You don't need to be a socialist for that to worry you.
Whilst I am not a proponent of tax and spend, tax as little as possible and trust everything to the market was the economics of the madhouse. Thatcher and Clarke were largely responsible for the destruction of the NHS, the railways and the steel industry and, through right to buy, they sowed the seeds of a housing market were relatively well paid, essential workers cannot afford to house their families, even outside the south-east.
The problem with Thatcher is that of most right-wing governments, the rich get richer, the poor get screwed. You don't need to be a socialist for that to worry you.
Frankly I had a great time. My tax bill was at its lowest ever.
Unfortunately she did screw up unemployment. It was ridiculous to knacker manufacturing to the point where there were three million unemployed. Without the North Sea Oil revenues Britain would have sunk...
Definitely mixed views. I also didn't like the erosion in support for Education (Student Loans instead of grants). Although its a Labour Government that have seriously fcuked that up. Shocking...
So, like you, I look back fondly but the rose-tint spec aren't on.
Interestingly I would now vote for IDS. For the same reason many voted Nu Labia so long ago when they got it. Sheer anger and frustration.
Unfortunately she did screw up unemployment. It was ridiculous to knacker manufacturing to the point where there were three million unemployed. Without the North Sea Oil revenues Britain would have sunk...
Definitely mixed views. I also didn't like the erosion in support for Education (Student Loans instead of grants). Although its a Labour Government that have seriously fcuked that up. Shocking...
So, like you, I look back fondly but the rose-tint spec aren't on.
Interestingly I would now vote for IDS. For the same reason many voted Nu Labia so long ago when they got it. Sheer anger and frustration.
:waitingtobeshotdown:
Votes are won mainly on the "oooh he's a nice man" housewife vote and not really on policies.
I've always said the only person who can lead the Tory party and have the vote winning panache and proven governing qualities is Chris Patten.
He also has 2 fit daughters.
Votes are won mainly on the "oooh he's a nice man" housewife vote and not really on policies.
I've always said the only person who can lead the Tory party and have the vote winning panache and proven governing qualities is Chris Patten.
He also has 2 fit daughters.
jondokic said: Profitable. Policies of the Thatcher government resulted in the boom-bust economic cycle accelerating. As one of my businesses in the time was renting property out in Notting Hill (which in the late 70s was still full of bedsits and hookers)and I did well from the boom in property prices brought about by the rapid expansion of many city companies. Unfortunately the boom was totally unsustainable. The housing market was artificially inflated with tax breaks that were, inevitably, going to have to be revoked eventually and interest rates were at a level that made no economic sense (just like now).
Whilst I am not a proponent of tax and spend, tax as little as possible and trust everything to the market was the economics of the madhouse. Thatcher and Clarke were largely responsible for the destruction of the NHS, the railways and the steel industry and, through right to buy, they sowed the seeds of a housing market were relatively well paid, essential workers cannot afford to house their families, even outside the south-east.
The problem with Thatcher is that of most right-wing governments, the rich get richer, the poor get screwed. You don't need to be a socialist for that to worry you.
dazren said: Maggie didn't kill off manufacturing. The expanding worldwide economy with cheaper labour cost dealt that blow.
That simply isn't true. A conscious decision was made to skew the economy towards the service economy. Had a decision been made to pursue a wider industrial base we could still have the finest steel works in the world, rather than having to import steel from Germany (not known for its cheap labour costs). The only industries which were killed off purely by cheap labour markets (principally low skill base manufacturing) had already been on the slide since before the second WW. The death of the car industry and coal mining were down to a desire to destroy the unions at any costs, the militancy in the unions having been stoked by the government in order to demonstrate the need for a move towards a service economy in the first place...
FourWheelDrift said: Votes are won mainly on the "oooh he's a nice man" housewife vote and not really on policies.
Unfortunately this is largely true. Unfortunately the politicians know it. Unfortunately they then lose any respect for the electorate. Unfortunately they then adopt a "Nanny knows best" attitude - which then becomes a legislative juggernaut determined to take away any possibility of individual responsibility or initiative.
If you are too stupid to understand the issues clearly you are too stupid to vote. If politicians believe that the majority of the electorate are too stupid to vote how long before our democracy becomes a de facto dicatatorship.
Oh...it very nearly has already.
Rise up my friends. Scythe away these lying cheating no-goods with the cutting blade of your own intellect.
He also has 2 fit daughters.
OK. OK. You win. That's a votewinner for sure.
kevinday said:
I personally think she was the best leader this country has had .
She was to start with but IMHO got too big for her boots - hence her demise!
JM was Ok but agree he lacked charisma.
TB - smarmy is the most positive thing I can say about him.
Trouble is there's no real alternative. Paddy Ashdown (met him once in Bedford) was a great guy, but lacked the experience of government (not that he ever got a chance to get any) but banging on about PR and tax rises all the time was his undoing I believe.
Tories still lack a charismatic leader unfortunately and the Lib dems are still a bit behind the pace.
Another term of Labour government, though - just goes to prove the good old Brit's are gullable as F***
Ultimately the system is the problem and PR is the most likely successor (if any) but even this is not foolproof and will cause too many "committee" decisions.
Ideas for a new system of government anyone?
1979 - Britain on the brink of total economic meltdown; the pernicious effect of Red Robo & Co had reduced general productivity to third world levels and we were being totally p1ssed on by other western economies. Mr.Average drove a Marina 1.8 (HLS if he was lucky.)
1990 - revolution in productivity mainly due to the winding back of wholly inapropriate union influence; huge rafts of society on several foreign holidays per year and the average car is now perfectly assembled with electric everything and air-con.
It ain't perfect but it could - and would - have been an economic wasteland without the reforms of the 80s.
Maggie was too left wing for my liking; Norm, now he was the man...
Lunch? Oh you gotta be kidding...
1990 - revolution in productivity mainly due to the winding back of wholly inapropriate union influence; huge rafts of society on several foreign holidays per year and the average car is now perfectly assembled with electric everything and air-con.
It ain't perfect but it could - and would - have been an economic wasteland without the reforms of the 80s.
Maggie was too left wing for my liking; Norm, now he was the man...
Lunch? Oh you gotta be kidding...
Hmm perhaps.. I still think that anti-euro-integration is a fundamenatal requirement..
FourWheelDrift said:the only person who can lead the Tory party and have the vote winning panache and proven governing qualities is Chris Patten.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, we simply cannot have all 3 main parties wanting to take us into the Euro and into federalism. It's not acceptable and the Tory party has a political duty to stand against it.
It makes me laugh when some people in this country call her "Thatcher", and vilify her relentlessly - when they were in nappies or junior school when she was our leader. I have an enormous amount of respect for her, because she did what NO current politician does - she stood up for what she believed in, was principled and moralistic, and un-wavering in her belief in this country. ("The lady's not for turning")
She tamed the unions, and although under her care, we became a "post-industrial" nation, I think it was the tail end of a manufacturing decline that began in the late 50's and 60's, with the rise of industry in cheap labour markets elsewhere.
I thnk overall, she was a great leader, and a quality politician - I doubt that Blair will be remembered for very long after he leaves - he is an embarrassment to this country, and a 3rd. rate reactionary politician. But he continues the legacy left by Maggie, rather than by his own previous party leaders - don't forget the winter of discontent, 25% borrowing rates, IMF loans etc., all occurred under Labour administrations. Black Monday, the EMF etc fiasco, were financial hiccups in comparison with our country's Labour driven bankruptcy in the 70's. But we forget all that because the incumbents were unmemorable.
And before anyone bleats on about the miner's strike, that was motivated by Arthur Scargill's political ambitions, and not by any reasonable working demands, and he made mugs and sacrifices out of the miners, and he is the one from that era,who should be forever vilified.
She tamed the unions, and although under her care, we became a "post-industrial" nation, I think it was the tail end of a manufacturing decline that began in the late 50's and 60's, with the rise of industry in cheap labour markets elsewhere.
I thnk overall, she was a great leader, and a quality politician - I doubt that Blair will be remembered for very long after he leaves - he is an embarrassment to this country, and a 3rd. rate reactionary politician. But he continues the legacy left by Maggie, rather than by his own previous party leaders - don't forget the winter of discontent, 25% borrowing rates, IMF loans etc., all occurred under Labour administrations. Black Monday, the EMF etc fiasco, were financial hiccups in comparison with our country's Labour driven bankruptcy in the 70's. But we forget all that because the incumbents were unmemorable.
And before anyone bleats on about the miner's strike, that was motivated by Arthur Scargill's political ambitions, and not by any reasonable working demands, and he made mugs and sacrifices out of the miners, and he is the one from that era,who should be forever vilified.
The death of the British car industry was down to the cars like the Allegro, Marina and Princess - nothing to do with Mrs T. Many of the industries that declined in Thatcher's Britain had been terminally ill for years, being propped up by Government hand outs or straight nationalistaion. Mrs T's (really Milton Friedman's) economic policies centered around removing government from the position of trying to run lame duck industries. The early privatisation schemes were a reflection of these policies and were desperately needed. Where the privatisation policies came unstuck, in my opinion, was with the selling off of public transport, public services and public utilities. These types of operations are either financially unviable anyway or too strategically important to the country to be put under the control of (sometimes non-UK) profit orientated businesses.
jondokic said: The problem with Thatcher is that of most right-wing governments, the rich get richer, the poor get screwed. You don't need to be a socialist for that to worry you.
Statistics show that the wealth divide may widen, but that the poor get richer too. I know what I prefer...
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