Forecourt operators believe the hype..

[M@H]

Bought petrol yesterday... went inside to pay and at the same time checked to see if I had missd any calls on my mobile.. (I don't hear the phone too well in the Tiv ;-))

Anyway, the assistant (some early 40's woman) decided to tirade me with grief for having a phone switched on on "her" fourcourt.

She went on at great lengths to specifically tell me that there had been 5 incidents of mobile phones ringing on forecourts that had caused the car being filled at the time to catch fire. :yeahright:

I pointed out that the mobile phone signal was more likely to reset the pump than cause a fire as it used a similar frequency band..


Anyway, amazing isn't it.. my phone is in fact an incendiary device ! and does she think that the mobile phone signal from all the masts will aviod all forecourts by magic..? Who churns out this conspiracy theory crap!?

Matt.

>>> Edited by M@H on Saturday 8th March 08:27

[Oi_Oi_Savaloy]

If this is the case - we can now all throw away our cigarette lighters and use the mobile to light up with.......

[flatbattery]

I guess she didn't see any of the reports in that fantastic comic "the Sun" about Mobile Phone Service Providers hiding masts inside Petrol Station Forecourt Signs...

And I don't suppose she realises that cars use an internal combustion engine....

[mel]

Indeed Shell are one of the prime culprits for selling antenna space for "covert" cell aerials in built up areas by allowing the operators to use the insides of the tall signs that tell you how much per litre it is. I guess its only the outgoing signal from the phone thats dangerous

[angusfaldo]

Same thing in hospitals. They always demand you switch them off. Now I'd understand it if the request was made on behalf of ill patients who need peace and quiet to recouperate. But they always claim it is because they interfere with critical hospital equipment.

Why is it then that my missis (who works at our local hospital) has been told she can use her mobile so that there's then no excuse for making private calls on the hospital phones...

The DTI will be imposing export restrictions on the phone manufacturers next, lest they export loads of second hand handsets to Saddam...

[Bonce]

I had an old Ericsson brick phone that used to generate blue sparks when I moved it it alongside the metal casing of my Kenwood hi-fi in my bedroom. Not a one off either, I could do it every time.

Gives the 'hype' some strength if you ask me.

[miniman]

Same thing goes for using mobiles on aircraft.

But what is the big urgency to use a mobile in a petrol station / hospital / whatever? If there has been one occurrence of a fire or patient death or whatever that can be shown to have been caused by a mobile, then there is a justification for banning them.

I have to have one of the damn things for work, but if I didn't I would bin it straight away.

[jondokic]

Very very remote possibility of igniting vapour, it has happened in commercial fuel dumps, haven't heard of a proven case on a forecourt. It is, however, illegal to operate a radio communications device on a petrol station forecourt but the biggest risk is probably being run over whilst concentrating on your phone, rather than the muppet in the 740 Working on a forecourt is a stressful job, without having to deal with people breaking clearly posted regulations. The 'conspiracy theory crap' has been perpepuated by Shell, amongst others.

[PetrolTed]

The Shell near me has a leaflet on the pumps detailing four incidents that supposedly give credence to the theory. All of the incidents were related to people being directly next to a pump actually dispensing fuel at the time.

[Bonce]

But thinking about it, the right combination of clothing and and seat cover materials generates massive static electricity buildups on me sometimes, so the forecourt operators might as well insist that you remove all your clothing before getting out of your car to fill up.

I can see the campaign now: "Nylon kills"

[NDT]

sorry Matt, you're way off target.

Shell - the main fuel supplier for the engine test facility I run, issued the following safety warning last year:

"SHELL have issued a warning about Mobile Phones, they have reported 3 incidents recently where Mobile Phones have ignited fumes whilst being answered / ringing during fuelling operations.
In the first case, the phone was placed on the boot lid during fuelling, it rang and the ensuing fire destroyed the car and the pump.
In the second, an individual suffered burns to the face when fumes ignited as he answered a call during fuelling.
In the third case, an individual suffered burns to the thigh and groin as fumes ignited when the phone, which was in his pocket, rang during fuelling."

[whatever]

This is interesting -- for several years this has been often quoted as "something that could happen" but the evidence has been scarce, to say the least.

Now, it appears that these things are going off left, right and centre.

Is it:

a) More phones, more chances?

b) Cheaper construction of phones (to make more/some profit) makes sparks more likely?

c) Made up?

d) Something else?


For me, if someone (or a sign) asks me not to use the phone on their property, then I'll do as they ask as a courtesy. Same as I'd expect the boss of Shell not to take calls on his mobile if he came round to my house, if I so asked.

It's odd though, in some ways, as in Basingstoke I often used to see the shop-keeper at a now defunct petrol station smoking like a chimney...

[richard sails]

The chance of a RF field from the phone causing a spark/explosion is extremely remote but is a extremely small possibility.

However from the Shells reports I wonder if the phones had a vibrate function with a tiny motor. A tiny motor could (if placed in the vapour cloud) cause a fire/explosion. It would be likely to be a small one as the vapour cloud will probably be blown away by the great British weather as it vented from the tank.

In my opinion to use a phone when refuelling, close to where the empty tank is venting probably carries a VERY small risk, the biggest being a vibrating motor sparking when someone rings you, to use it in other areas should be totally safe.

edited to add;

The law that stops transmissions from mobile radios was due to incidents when much more powerful (often with valves rather than transistors or big clunky (and sparky) relays did start fires in the dim and distant past. These radio sets were often fitted in the boots of cars next to the petrol tank!


>> Edited by richard sails on Friday 7th March 13:07

[agent006]

I believe that the problem comes from static charges. You're busy chatting while you're filling you car up, the phone can charge you with its lovely static. It goes down your arm, into the pump and sparks across into the tank.

That's what i've heard anyway. But a fireman did tell me otehrwise.

[richard sails]

Static build up is the very small risk to which I refer, however this is a very small rick. The noticable thing about the Shell info is that all three phones were being answered ie the vibrate motor may have been running.

I think I will avoid having my phone in my pocket, if its set to silent vibrate rather than ring when filling my tank, just in case...

[M@H]

Just for the avoidance of doubt, I do/did not use my phone in garages at all.. I merely looked at the screen whilst inside the shop.. If were all honest I'll bet 95% of us don't religeously switch off our phones when going onto a garage forecourt.


PS: pleased to see that I'm wrong in a way, at least it means that theres some evidence about, not just hot air

[jondokic]

Posted this once already, but it ate my post:
Static discharge is a very big deal when dealing with high vapour point liquids. When you pick up the pump you earth yourself through the high carbon hose (which are extremely expensive) to an earth grid. This is one of the reasons why there is a delay before petrol is pumped. The concerns over static are what led to the mini fuel tank recall early in its production run.
In theory you could, in the right weather conditions, get corona discharge from any aerial (St.Elmo's fire) which would be very bad news...

[deltaf]

The fact is that a phone dosnt even have to ring or recieve a call to be transmitting.
Why?
Mobiles continually receive and transmit signals to the base stations without you even knowing about it happening.
They constantly check the recieve signal and check their output signal to ensure optimum transmission at minimum power levels.
Wanna check this? Ok i presume most of you have a modern tv with a "standby" feature.
So put the tv into standby and place the phone close to the set.
You will hear signals transmitted by the phone every so often, cos even tho the tvs on standby, the audio circuitry is still powered.
Try it, youll be surprised!
Nokias are the worst for power ouput, ie; the highest.
Dont nuke those brains!

[rpguk]

My ericsson t29 is really bad for interfering with things, it constantly interferes with my computer speakers, headphones, monitor etc.

I suppose if it can interfere with these things (its a fairly modern phone, and the stereo, monitor etc are all quite new) I can how (using the idea of lowest common denominator) an old phone could easily interfere with some of the older NHS equipment.

And as for the petrol stations, I can't see why they would want to make something like this up

>> Edited by rpguk on Friday 7th March 17:59

[tuscansix]

deltaf said: Mobiles continually receive and transmit signals to the base stations without you even knowing about it happening.
They constantly check the recieve signal and check their output signal to ensure optimum transmission at minimum power levels.

Which is what they used to ascertain who the murderer of those drug dealers in Essex was, by checking the phone records it indicated that he was in the area at the time of the offence, even though he denied it.

This therefore means that you can be tracked around the country, purely by following your phone signal as it talks to the base stations as you move. So to avoid this go out of the office and forget to take your phone with you.