What determines exhaust characteriscs in the car?
Discussion
I'm looking to replace the exhaust on my GR86 within something a little more OEM+. Stock is shockingly bad for the type of car it is and it gives no indication of revs etc.
I've had an Abarth 595 Comp and that sounded amazing from the outside but was actually disapointing internally. Contrast that to my Megane RS which sounded 'just right' externally but internally it was fantastic as it was very sensitive to throttle inputs so I can could really sense what the engine was doing.
Are these inherent to individual cars or is it possible to change the characteristic?
I'm assuming in the case on the Megane vs 595 that the Megane had a far sharper throttle response?
I've had an Abarth 595 Comp and that sounded amazing from the outside but was actually disapointing internally. Contrast that to my Megane RS which sounded 'just right' externally but internally it was fantastic as it was very sensitive to throttle inputs so I can could really sense what the engine was doing.
Are these inherent to individual cars or is it possible to change the characteristic?
I'm assuming in the case on the Megane vs 595 that the Megane had a far sharper throttle response?
With time and effort you can tunes exhausts to quite a large degree, many manufacturers do so. My son did acoustic engineering at UNI, one module available on his course was car exhaust sound tuning and management. They had a dedicated facility used for that. When we went round there was an unmarked prototype in the facility.
For you to do it, or an aftermarket exhaust maker is hit and miss, you may end up with something that sounds good at some speeds but drones horribly on the motorway. Plus turbo's and egr's etc impact the sound
For you to do it, or an aftermarket exhaust maker is hit and miss, you may end up with something that sounds good at some speeds but drones horribly on the motorway. Plus turbo's and egr's etc impact the sound
Unless it's really loud, it's hard to appreciate the exhaust sound inside the cabin. The problem is that the exhaust is firing the sound behind you so all you really hear is a varying degree of drone. I guess that's basically the exhaust sound but smoothed out as it's bouncing back at you from numerous angles like a messy reverb and echo effect.
As Otolith says, it's more about the induction. My favourite mod to date has been the £15 Halfords cone air filter on my TT. It sounds mental when pressing on but the car sounds quiet on motorways and just cruising about. The exhaust is OEM (quiet) but with the res "delete" which brings back the upper notes of the exhaust to make it a bit more raspy/sporty without being louder. It apparently results in increased drone but I can't really hear any extra drone so I wonder why Audi put a (de?)resonator box half way along the exhaust. It has a nice if subtle pur when idling, much like an older (2005) OEM Mini Cooper that I heard the other day.
In tunnels, if I accelerate gently, I can hear the exhaust but it's a mild droning sound - nothing wrong with it, I suppose, just a bit disappointing if you want loud; accelerating hard, the exhaust is drowned out by the induction.
As an aside, I don't know why my old 200SX with a K&N cone filter didn't sound crazy when I had it installed. I wonder if the sports exhaust somewhat drowned out the induction sound.
Edit: I probably overthink exhausts but I've always been interested for some weird reason, hence the comment in my profile description.
As Otolith says, it's more about the induction. My favourite mod to date has been the £15 Halfords cone air filter on my TT. It sounds mental when pressing on but the car sounds quiet on motorways and just cruising about. The exhaust is OEM (quiet) but with the res "delete" which brings back the upper notes of the exhaust to make it a bit more raspy/sporty without being louder. It apparently results in increased drone but I can't really hear any extra drone so I wonder why Audi put a (de?)resonator box half way along the exhaust. It has a nice if subtle pur when idling, much like an older (2005) OEM Mini Cooper that I heard the other day.
In tunnels, if I accelerate gently, I can hear the exhaust but it's a mild droning sound - nothing wrong with it, I suppose, just a bit disappointing if you want loud; accelerating hard, the exhaust is drowned out by the induction.
As an aside, I don't know why my old 200SX with a K&N cone filter didn't sound crazy when I had it installed. I wonder if the sports exhaust somewhat drowned out the induction sound.
Edit: I probably overthink exhausts but I've always been interested for some weird reason, hence the comment in my profile description.
Edited by Hoofy on Tuesday 19th August 11:22
Depending on your budget, it may be well worth having a custom system built by a specialist. You absolutely can tune the exhaust to sound a number of different ways, a good exhaust specialist will ask exactly what you're looking for, where you do and don't want to be hearing it (motorway driving for example) and adjust it accordingly.
Size of the exhaust tubing and number/placement/type of silencers are the main things that affect the sound. As others have said, don't ignore the induction side of things though. Best modification I made to my EG Civic was an AEM V2 induction kit which sounded like a jet at full throttle. That's where it's worth spending the money over just a cone filter.
Size of the exhaust tubing and number/placement/type of silencers are the main things that affect the sound. As others have said, don't ignore the induction side of things though. Best modification I made to my EG Civic was an AEM V2 induction kit which sounded like a jet at full throttle. That's where it's worth spending the money over just a cone filter.
Went from a 2 inch bore on my Fiesta ST, along with a load of tuning and the difference is massive.
As there is less restriction more of the sound energy can escape in the wider bore and the sound has more space to resonate, couple that with losing the middle silencer made it pretty hard work, I grafted in an additional box, generic once off eBay and it helped, a little.
Also had a sports cat fitted as the standard one was apparently glowing white hot and the pressure was pushing the exhaust back, you make a specific amount of power,getting more air in, you need a better way of clearing the air on the way out.
Its still too loud but dont think there is much I can do about it, does make me wonder how some people manage, I was on my push bike the other day and a black Lambo Aventador overtook, initially made me jump when it arrived behind, then when it went past, jesus it was loud, and spat flames, it was actually uncomfortably loud. Guessing as everything is behind you it may not be as loud in the car but how they sell something like that, that is that loud I dont know ! Suppose it could have been an aftermarket system, I mean it sounded great but I was glad when it had gone !
As there is less restriction more of the sound energy can escape in the wider bore and the sound has more space to resonate, couple that with losing the middle silencer made it pretty hard work, I grafted in an additional box, generic once off eBay and it helped, a little.
Also had a sports cat fitted as the standard one was apparently glowing white hot and the pressure was pushing the exhaust back, you make a specific amount of power,getting more air in, you need a better way of clearing the air on the way out.
Its still too loud but dont think there is much I can do about it, does make me wonder how some people manage, I was on my push bike the other day and a black Lambo Aventador overtook, initially made me jump when it arrived behind, then when it went past, jesus it was loud, and spat flames, it was actually uncomfortably loud. Guessing as everything is behind you it may not be as loud in the car but how they sell something like that, that is that loud I dont know ! Suppose it could have been an aftermarket system, I mean it sounded great but I was glad when it had gone !
J4CKO said:
Its still too loud but dont think there is much I can do about it, does make me wonder how some people manage,
I think it's because they never really go anywhere. Even back in the day when fart can hatchbacks were everywhere you would very rarely see them on the motorway or even on any roads between towns, they were just used to fart around in locally. Today every dismal provincial town is full of VAG turds farting and popping and banging but again get a 5 minute drive away from the retail parks or the s
ttier residential areas and you won't see a single such car.Even stuff modified for performance rather than attention, track cars and stuff like your Fiesta, aren't really used as transport so much as for a toy and the owners have more subdued cars if they're actually going anywhere.
Edited by GeniusOfLove on Tuesday 19th August 13:33
GeniusOfLove said:
J4CKO said:
Its still too loud but dont think there is much I can do about it, does make me wonder how some people manage,
I think it's because they never really go anywhere. Even back in the day when fart can hatchbacks were everywhere you would very rarely see them on the motorway or even on any roads between towns, they were just used to fart around in locally. Today every dismal provincial town is full of VAG turds farting and popping and banging but again get a 5 minute drive away from the retail parks or the s
ttier residential areas and you won't see a single such car.Even stuff modified for performance rather than attention, track cars and stuff like your Fiesta, aren't really used as transport so much as for a toy and the owners have more subdued cars if they're actually going anywhere.
Edited by GeniusOfLove on Tuesday 19th August 13:33
You were right about them, every time I drive it, and yes I know its a diesel it grows on me more and more.
Talk about two ends of the scale.
otolith said:
A lot of the good noise perceived in the car may be induction rather than exhaust. I think the Megane RS has a pipe routing intake noise into the cabin. Though these days it may also be artificially generated by a speaker.
Remember driving an R.S. 265 and thinking it sounded like Darth Vaper breathing in front you. Loved it 
J4CKO said:
What, like a Jaguar XJ ?
You were right about them, every time I drive it, and yes I know its a diesel it grows on me more and more.
Talk about two ends of the scale.
Exactly like that, two different tools for two different jobs!You were right about them, every time I drive it, and yes I know its a diesel it grows on me more and more.
Talk about two ends of the scale.
Nice to hear some appreciation of induction noise, older cars used to often have a lot of it but now it's all about a blaring wall of blurred noise from the exhaust.
The old Duratec V6 in the Mondeo and Cougar was fantastic for it too.
I had a Volvo C70 convertible with the D5 diesel (yeah yeah I know) for ages as a motorway smoker and that made the most disgustingly wonderful five pot growl with loads of turbo wooshing and induction noise, all from the front of the car and no noise from the back. It was f
king filthy, I loved it.Edited by GeniusOfLove on Tuesday 19th August 13:47
GeniusOfLove said:
J4CKO said:
What, like a Jaguar XJ ?
You were right about them, every time I drive it, and yes I know its a diesel it grows on me more and more.
Talk about two ends of the scale.
Exactly like that, two different tools for two different jobs!You were right about them, every time I drive it, and yes I know its a diesel it grows on me more and more.
Talk about two ends of the scale.
Nice to hear some appreciation of induction noise, older cars used to often have a lot of it but now it's all about a blaring wall of blurred noise from the exhaust.
The old Duratec V6 in the Mondeo and Cougar was fantastic for it too.
I had a Volvo C70 convertible with the D5 diesel (yeah yeah I know) for ages as a motorway smoker and that made the most disgustingly wonderful five pot growl with loads of turbo wooshing and induction noise, all from the front of the car and no noise from the back. It was f
king filthy, I loved it.Edited by GeniusOfLove on Tuesday 19th August 13:47
It was a Mk1 Vectra with a massive spoiler "Lexus" lights, many stickers and neon lighting ! But, it sounded absolutely magnificent.
Diesels can sound alright on the move, at idle the clacking cacophony is generally unpleasant, the XJ is fine on the move, just dont open a window when close to a wall as thats when you are reminded what it runs on, oh and turn that sodding Eco start stop b
ks off as you really dont want a big V6 lump shutting down and firing up, shaking like a Labrador that just got out of the sea.
Exhaust sound is really for others and because we have been fed a diet of loud is good most aftermarket exhausts are just larger diameter pipes with less sound deadening material. In my limited experience messing with exhausts has only ever led to drone, fumes or interference issues and never been worth it other than for bragging rights. That said I am the first to giggle but also applaud any mx5 with a monster jap cannon back box as it tells me car culture is still alive…. Good on you.
If you want “engine sound” to match your revs then induction is the answer. Assuming you have no turbo, itb’s are the bees knees.
If you want more performance then headers and down pipes are where you will initially find some gains, but they will be small and in isolation quite probably pointless. Primary pipe length needs to match cams and power bands etc……all quite technical stuff but utterly absorbing.
If you want “engine sound” to match your revs then induction is the answer. Assuming you have no turbo, itb’s are the bees knees.
If you want more performance then headers and down pipes are where you will initially find some gains, but they will be small and in isolation quite probably pointless. Primary pipe length needs to match cams and power bands etc……all quite technical stuff but utterly absorbing.
Start with the intake for in car enjoyment.
As others have said; Exhausts tend to have vastly more effect on the rest of the world rather than inside the car
That being said, they're still a part of the overall package.
Had a ride in a Civic with a Scorpion exhaust and it was horrifying - Deafening drone at closed throttle, and it'd shut up once any throttle was added.
By comparison, The Remus I have is nicely tuned for inside - Drone free, and the various valve options are noticeable inside the car - All help the tone over standard, and full open with enthused driving is very entertaining.
Coming from just an Intake, Adding the exhaust generally fills in deeper tones and increases overall volume.
About 80% of the benefit is for the pedestrian you're showing off to though
For anything exhaust related; I wouldn't bother unless it's a company with a strong track record and actual focus on acoustic tuning / performance - Remus have a proper sound testing chamber and work with OEMs, whereas I suspect some other manufacturers rely on the industrial estate technical feedback team... ( "Yeah that sounds proppa wicked bruv, that'll do" )
As others have said; Exhausts tend to have vastly more effect on the rest of the world rather than inside the car
That being said, they're still a part of the overall package.
Had a ride in a Civic with a Scorpion exhaust and it was horrifying - Deafening drone at closed throttle, and it'd shut up once any throttle was added.
By comparison, The Remus I have is nicely tuned for inside - Drone free, and the various valve options are noticeable inside the car - All help the tone over standard, and full open with enthused driving is very entertaining.
Coming from just an Intake, Adding the exhaust generally fills in deeper tones and increases overall volume.
About 80% of the benefit is for the pedestrian you're showing off to though
For anything exhaust related; I wouldn't bother unless it's a company with a strong track record and actual focus on acoustic tuning / performance - Remus have a proper sound testing chamber and work with OEMs, whereas I suspect some other manufacturers rely on the industrial estate technical feedback team... ( "Yeah that sounds proppa wicked bruv, that'll do" )
Haltamer said:
Start with the intake for in car enjoyment.
As others have said; Exhausts tend to have vastly more effect on the rest of the world rather than inside the car
That being said, they're still a part of the overall package.
Had a ride in a Civic with a Scorpion exhaust and it was horrifying - Deafening drone at closed throttle, and it'd shut up once any throttle was added.
By comparison, The Remus I have is nicely tuned for inside - Drone free, and the various valve options are noticeable inside the car - All help the tone over standard, and full open with enthused driving is very entertaining.
Coming from just an Intake, Adding the exhaust generally fills in deeper tones and increases overall volume.
About 80% of the benefit is for the pedestrian you're showing off to though
For anything exhaust related; I wouldn't bother unless it's a company with a strong track record and actual focus on acoustic tuning / performance - Remus have a proper sound testing chamber and work with OEMs, whereas I suspect some other manufacturers rely on the industrial estate technical feedback team... ( "Yeah that sounds proppa wicked bruv, that'll do" )
I only changed the exhaust on one car, my old MK6 Fiesta ST (the 2.0 Duratec one).As others have said; Exhausts tend to have vastly more effect on the rest of the world rather than inside the car
That being said, they're still a part of the overall package.
Had a ride in a Civic with a Scorpion exhaust and it was horrifying - Deafening drone at closed throttle, and it'd shut up once any throttle was added.
By comparison, The Remus I have is nicely tuned for inside - Drone free, and the various valve options are noticeable inside the car - All help the tone over standard, and full open with enthused driving is very entertaining.
Coming from just an Intake, Adding the exhaust generally fills in deeper tones and increases overall volume.
About 80% of the benefit is for the pedestrian you're showing off to though
For anything exhaust related; I wouldn't bother unless it's a company with a strong track record and actual focus on acoustic tuning / performance - Remus have a proper sound testing chamber and work with OEMs, whereas I suspect some other manufacturers rely on the industrial estate technical feedback team... ( "Yeah that sounds proppa wicked bruv, that'll do" )
I had the Mountune 185 kit installed by Ford. Full exhaust and mainifold, new airbox, cams and KW suspension.
It sounded brilliant on throttle, great on trackdays. But it was way too droney for daily use.
I ended up having the cat-back replaced by a Miltek exhaust instead and it made a world of difference. Still sounded a bit fruity but if you kept the revs under control it was much quieter and the drone on the motorway as eliminated.
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