Does anybody use reliability surveys to decide their car?
Discussion
I find these surveys, JD power and the like often have highly sought after and desirable vehicles toward the bottom. Makes me wonder how much store punters put in reliability when it comes to taking the plunge. For instance other half has a RR Vogue, things seem to go wrong all the time, electrics, suspension, PAS eats consumables, but would she have an alternative...No chance, has to be a Range Rover.
Find them pretty subjective to be honest.
An owner of an expensive car will be more disappointed with a minor glitch than an owner of a cheap brand would who would probably ignore it.
Owners of certain brands (peugeots/alfas/etc) look at these surveys and remark that because they have had a fuse go that the whole car must be s
t.
It's all about brand expectation. However they can be good for finding out about common problems affecting the range.
You'd be better off going on the particular brand's owners forum where you can seperate the wheat from the chaff more easily.
An owner of an expensive car will be more disappointed with a minor glitch than an owner of a cheap brand would who would probably ignore it.
Owners of certain brands (peugeots/alfas/etc) look at these surveys and remark that because they have had a fuse go that the whole car must be s
t.It's all about brand expectation. However they can be good for finding out about common problems affecting the range.
You'd be better off going on the particular brand's owners forum where you can seperate the wheat from the chaff more easily.
I always wonder what percentage of car faults are due to idiots who don't bother to maintain or service them. Then if it goes wrong they'll go around telling everyone not to buy x brand as they fall apart.
As an aside I don't take much notice of reputations. I've had a Citroen and an Alfa which were reliable and a Nissan and VW that fell apart.
As an aside I don't take much notice of reputations. I've had a Citroen and an Alfa which were reliable and a Nissan and VW that fell apart.
I always find it funny when people dismiss great swathes of cars because they (or more likely someone they know) had one about 15 years ago and it wouldn't start when they came back from holiday after leaving the lights on. Is it the same with NCAP tests, does anyone really use them?
Irrespective of perceptions/brands etc., all cars are NOT engineered the same. Some are simply engineered/manufactured better than others.
You have to take it on a model by model basis, some manufacturers make very reliable models alongside unreliable models. There are some that produce, on the whole, reliable cars and some that don't. Others produce a very mixed bag.
There is also the question of "what" reliability is to the individual. For some, it's a car that doesn't leave them stranded, for others it will be stuff just going wrong (even if the car doesn't strand them). For example, old (not the new crap from that last 10/15 years) Peugeot's used to rattle and interiors and other bits and bobs etc. would fall apart, however the main key mechanical components were quite solid and they would go on forever.
From MY experience (and that of a couple of mechanics I know) of cars I've own/run/family cars, the Hondas have been very well engineered and reliable and Vauxhalls the worst. I have FAR higher expectations of reliability of the Honda's than the Vauxhalls. The Hondas have matched/exceeded those expectations, the Vauxhalls (well the last one
) have fallen well short of even low expectations. You live and learn though, I know which manufacturer I will never buy a car from again though...
That said, for NEW cars, I expect very good reliability from ALL manufacturers for the first few years. Some things break over time, wear and tear etc. on old cars. For a new car, there is no excuse, especially in this day and age. If any faults do occur, should be fixed with the minimum of fuss. It shocks me that there are manufacturers out there who will argue the toss when someone has a fault - there's a thread on here about an Insignia with a duff clutch after just a few thousand miles (no doubt due to the stupid handbrake) and Vauxhall were being obstructive. What's the message sent?........ steer clear....
Which brings us to the centre of the issue, people do not have time (us here do though
) to research all the forums and so on to see which cars are more reliable than others, so they go by reputation, experiences of people they know and a quick perusal of some reliability surveys (with their flaws, yes).
Ultimately, unreliability is only an issue if you've got an unreliable example.
Also, there's no point getting something more reliable if it means sacrificing what you want from a given car. Just budget some cash to keep the thing running. for example, I KNOW Ferrari's are unreliable and not particularly well made, however that doesn't stop me wanting one (if only I had the means)
You have to take it on a model by model basis, some manufacturers make very reliable models alongside unreliable models. There are some that produce, on the whole, reliable cars and some that don't. Others produce a very mixed bag.
There is also the question of "what" reliability is to the individual. For some, it's a car that doesn't leave them stranded, for others it will be stuff just going wrong (even if the car doesn't strand them). For example, old (not the new crap from that last 10/15 years) Peugeot's used to rattle and interiors and other bits and bobs etc. would fall apart, however the main key mechanical components were quite solid and they would go on forever.
From MY experience (and that of a couple of mechanics I know) of cars I've own/run/family cars, the Hondas have been very well engineered and reliable and Vauxhalls the worst. I have FAR higher expectations of reliability of the Honda's than the Vauxhalls. The Hondas have matched/exceeded those expectations, the Vauxhalls (well the last one
) have fallen well short of even low expectations. You live and learn though, I know which manufacturer I will never buy a car from again though...That said, for NEW cars, I expect very good reliability from ALL manufacturers for the first few years. Some things break over time, wear and tear etc. on old cars. For a new car, there is no excuse, especially in this day and age. If any faults do occur, should be fixed with the minimum of fuss. It shocks me that there are manufacturers out there who will argue the toss when someone has a fault - there's a thread on here about an Insignia with a duff clutch after just a few thousand miles (no doubt due to the stupid handbrake) and Vauxhall were being obstructive. What's the message sent?........ steer clear....
Which brings us to the centre of the issue, people do not have time (us here do though
) to research all the forums and so on to see which cars are more reliable than others, so they go by reputation, experiences of people they know and a quick perusal of some reliability surveys (with their flaws, yes).Ultimately, unreliability is only an issue if you've got an unreliable example.
Also, there's no point getting something more reliable if it means sacrificing what you want from a given car. Just budget some cash to keep the thing running. for example, I KNOW Ferrari's are unreliable and not particularly well made, however that doesn't stop me wanting one (if only I had the means
)I always find it subjective on who writes the reviews. For example, a few reviews for my 120d say it's unreliable and things break etc. Whereas the people who write those reviews probably don't even know it's rwd (judging by the way a start-stop failure is a "major engine problem"), whereas reviews for the VX220 generally come from people who know how to treat a car well. As such, the reviews are usually positive, but highlighting little issues like a leak in the roof or an over-sensitive ABS. Folks who own VX220s are assumedly more car-savvy than the typical 1-series buyer.
I think you can read too much into car problems, and very few people are motivated to write about how good their cars are, but alot let you know very soon of the niggles.
Having said that, there are certain faults in cars that occur too regularly to ignore. I'm looking to change my car at the moment, and would like to stick with VAG, and like the Passat, but the electric handbrake puts me off. There are 1000's on the road,and most people don't have a single problem with it, but you do get reports of sometimes it causing problems, and talking to my sons father in law, he says, "no problems you get used to it very quickly, but maybe one in every 20 starts, it sticks on". My cable HB doesn't, so I maybe look at the Jetta instead.
Also I'm avoiding the 2lt PD engine, due to reported oil pump issues. Again, alot of engines, no issues, but the only two I have access to, owned by friends, have both had the pump fail at around 85k, causing both engines to require serious work on them, (both owners bought 5 series BM's instead).
My Mk IV Bora, suffered from the dreaded fan failure, well reported, and happened, due to the stupid resistor design, from a supposedly quality manufacturer, and I know of plenty of others who have the same problem, but didn't realise it. So yes, don't let the niggles in cars put you off, but don't ignore the frequently occuring engineering issues that manufacturers have, because like above, they usually are bad designs that do eventually break, with varying levels of concequences.
Having said that, there are certain faults in cars that occur too regularly to ignore. I'm looking to change my car at the moment, and would like to stick with VAG, and like the Passat, but the electric handbrake puts me off. There are 1000's on the road,and most people don't have a single problem with it, but you do get reports of sometimes it causing problems, and talking to my sons father in law, he says, "no problems you get used to it very quickly, but maybe one in every 20 starts, it sticks on". My cable HB doesn't, so I maybe look at the Jetta instead.
Also I'm avoiding the 2lt PD engine, due to reported oil pump issues. Again, alot of engines, no issues, but the only two I have access to, owned by friends, have both had the pump fail at around 85k, causing both engines to require serious work on them, (both owners bought 5 series BM's instead).
My Mk IV Bora, suffered from the dreaded fan failure, well reported, and happened, due to the stupid resistor design, from a supposedly quality manufacturer, and I know of plenty of others who have the same problem, but didn't realise it. So yes, don't let the niggles in cars put you off, but don't ignore the frequently occuring engineering issues that manufacturers have, because like above, they usually are bad designs that do eventually break, with varying levels of concequences.
Not me. I've noticed my personal experience with cars is totally different to the opinion surveys.
The Jaguar X-Type came up as being totally unreliable. It was one of the most reliable cars I'd ever owned.
I don't think that you can actually buy a 'bad' car anymore. They're all of a decent level and will work fine.
The Jaguar X-Type came up as being totally unreliable. It was one of the most reliable cars I'd ever owned.
I don't think that you can actually buy a 'bad' car anymore. They're all of a decent level and will work fine.
I don't pay attention to consumer reviews as much as I used to.
Some people expect the moon on a stick, and anything less they will tell everyone what crap it is.
This train of thought started after a friend of mine brought his girlfriend to the pub, and the conversation topic drifted towards phones. She piped up saying hers was crap and she wanted a new one.
When asked why it was crap: "The battery only lasts 5 days, it's rubbish."
People with unrealistic expectations own cars too.
Some people expect the moon on a stick, and anything less they will tell everyone what crap it is.
This train of thought started after a friend of mine brought his girlfriend to the pub, and the conversation topic drifted towards phones. She piped up saying hers was crap and she wanted a new one.
When asked why it was crap: "The battery only lasts 5 days, it's rubbish."
People with unrealistic expectations own cars too.
Most of the reliability indices that I've looked at use cost of repair to calculate reliability, so a Porsche that goes wrong once at a cost of £1000 is seen as worse than a Renault that goes wrong four times at a cost of £200. That's why "premium" brands end up near the bottom. Most that I've seen do indeed put Porsche lower than Renault, which in my admittedly small sample of friends is frankly ridiculous because the evidence is so overwhelming to the contrary. That said, there is some truth to be read into them - the Jap makes being at the top is no surprise for instance.
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