Insurance Telematics Box Opened up
Discussion
Found a guy online thats opened up one of these telematics boxes.
Im sure a little serial port hacking could work wonders... or at the very least use the gsm connection to take liberties with international calls, or endless data downloads at the insurers cost.
http://forums.hexus.net/automotive/323585-telemati...
Im sure a little serial port hacking could work wonders... or at the very least use the gsm connection to take liberties with international calls, or endless data downloads at the insurers cost.
http://forums.hexus.net/automotive/323585-telemati...
some website said:
... while referring to an insurance policy with a telematics box, well that policy is over so naturally I took a peek inside.
So here's "the box" and a hardwired accelerometer or some such device.
Nothing particularly interesting on the back, just a port for power.
The insides: (IMEI number covered up)
The other side of the board:
NiMH battery:
Accelerometer, I don't know what's inside, it's completely potted and I don't want to take it apart, it may come in handy for a future project.
That's all, no surprises really.
Observations:
- ARM9 microcontroller with onchip receiver for various satellite navigation systems, e.g. GPS. Chip by ST.
- 2Mb SRAM by ISSI.
- 16MB? flash by Spansion.
- Off-the-shelf GSM module by Telit.
- SIM chip is flat packaged and soldered directly to mainboard, appears the GSM service is with Telenor, there are also jumpers for Vodaphone and Tim.
- All antennas are printed on the mainboard.
- Everything except for a single connector is SMD.
- Multi-layer PCB (4 layer?).
- Nicely assembled, it's not as rugged as I thought it could be but that's to be expected, considering these things are semi-disposable and are built to a tight budget.
- NiMH battery used instead of lithium to save on cost? Since size and weight isn't important.
One last note, even though my new insurance company (also telematics) is with the same group as my last one, they couldn't reuse the box so a new one was fitted. The new box looks similar but is a different model, unfortunately there's no chance of having a closer look for the time being, I don't want to the box to inadvertently "detect" that the car has lost power, rolled several times and has gained 8m of elevation.
So here's "the box" and a hardwired accelerometer or some such device.
Nothing particularly interesting on the back, just a port for power.
The insides: (IMEI number covered up)
The other side of the board:
NiMH battery:
Accelerometer, I don't know what's inside, it's completely potted and I don't want to take it apart, it may come in handy for a future project.
That's all, no surprises really.
Observations:
- ARM9 microcontroller with onchip receiver for various satellite navigation systems, e.g. GPS. Chip by ST.
- 2Mb SRAM by ISSI.
- 16MB? flash by Spansion.
- Off-the-shelf GSM module by Telit.
- SIM chip is flat packaged and soldered directly to mainboard, appears the GSM service is with Telenor, there are also jumpers for Vodaphone and Tim.
- All antennas are printed on the mainboard.
- Everything except for a single connector is SMD.
- Multi-layer PCB (4 layer?).
- Nicely assembled, it's not as rugged as I thought it could be but that's to be expected, considering these things are semi-disposable and are built to a tight budget.
- NiMH battery used instead of lithium to save on cost? Since size and weight isn't important.
One last note, even though my new insurance company (also telematics) is with the same group as my last one, they couldn't reuse the box so a new one was fitted. The new box looks similar but is a different model, unfortunately there's no chance of having a closer look for the time being, I don't want to the box to inadvertently "detect" that the car has lost power, rolled several times and has gained 8m of elevation.
SystemParanoia said:
Im sure a little serial port hacking could work wonders... or at the very least use the gsm connection to take liberties with international calls, or endless data downloads at the insurers cost.
SystemParanoia said:
or at the very least use the gsm connection to take liberties with international calls, or endless data downloads at the insurers cost.
Because, of course, a SIM in a box intended for very small amounts of data upload will have unlimited international call credit and unlimited data volume...I used to work for a telematics provider, there are various methods to disable them/mess with them etc..
Trouble is the provider/company that maintains them have seen it all before and if it is done continually it results in the device being withdrawn/insurance cancelled/employment reprimands etc
Signal blockers will block them, seen blokes with works vans who work for big companies use them who fancied popping to the bookies on Friday Lunch and not being tracked. This was proved, guy was sacked for Gross misconduct, 15 years service ended just like that. GPS signal blockers can be purchased for about £20 and render all tracking units useless, hence why I never recommend trackers. Some even have cigarette adapters!! They are illegal to use, hence why if staff use them in company vehicles it is easy to fire them due to Gross Misconduct
Same with Insurance, if they think you are pissing about they will just cancel the policy/up the price of the policy to the non tracked price.
Trouble is the provider/company that maintains them have seen it all before and if it is done continually it results in the device being withdrawn/insurance cancelled/employment reprimands etc
Signal blockers will block them, seen blokes with works vans who work for big companies use them who fancied popping to the bookies on Friday Lunch and not being tracked. This was proved, guy was sacked for Gross misconduct, 15 years service ended just like that. GPS signal blockers can be purchased for about £20 and render all tracking units useless, hence why I never recommend trackers. Some even have cigarette adapters!! They are illegal to use, hence why if staff use them in company vehicles it is easy to fire them due to Gross Misconduct
Same with Insurance, if they think you are pissing about they will just cancel the policy/up the price of the policy to the non tracked price.
a GSM blocker would block the signal.. it would also block your phones signal lol.
unless you package them both together in foil or lead.
you would also have to remove the backup battery or feed the GSM blocker from the same supply ( easily done with the simple connectors they're using )
unless you package them both together in foil or lead.
you would also have to remove the backup battery or feed the GSM blocker from the same supply ( easily done with the simple connectors they're using )
Genuine question: is there actually any evidence that links acceleration in any axis (as measured by the aforementioned accelerometer) to the chance of having an accident? If there is, how close is the correlation, and what's to distinguish a timidly driven Impreza from a thrashed Corsa? Or am I just ignorant of how these things work and would a jerky and rough driver generally trigger a greater response than a smooth driver? I can understand jerky drivers being linked to accidents.
The reason for my question is that I, and others I'm sure, frequently corner and accelerate pretty quickly, when safe to do so, but I'm very keen on observation and safe stopping distances, so like many others like me have managed just over 20 years of safe driving, currently at just over 40k miles a year. Surely I'm an insurance company's dream with that mileage and that safety record, diligently paying my premium every year and never claiming, yet if it's what I think it is, I think I'd fail their accelerometer test immediately?!
Genuine questions - I know nothing about these things at all.
The reason for my question is that I, and others I'm sure, frequently corner and accelerate pretty quickly, when safe to do so, but I'm very keen on observation and safe stopping distances, so like many others like me have managed just over 20 years of safe driving, currently at just over 40k miles a year. Surely I'm an insurance company's dream with that mileage and that safety record, diligently paying my premium every year and never claiming, yet if it's what I think it is, I think I'd fail their accelerometer test immediately?!
Genuine questions - I know nothing about these things at all.
RobM77 said:
Genuine question: is there actually any evidence that links acceleration in any axis (as measured by the aforementioned accelerometer) to the chance of having an accident? If there is, how close is the correlation, and what's to distinguish a timidly driven Impreza from a thrashed Corsa? Or am I just ignorant of how these things work and would a jerky and rough driver generally trigger a greater response than a smooth driver? I can understand jerky drivers being linked to accidents.
The reason for my question is that I, and others I'm sure, frequently corner and accelerate pretty quickly, when safe to do so, but I'm very keen on observation and safe stopping distances, so like many others like me have managed just over 20 years of safe driving, currently at just over 40k miles a year. Surely I'm an insurance company's dream with that mileage and that safety record, diligently paying my premium every year and never claiming, yet if it's what I think it is, I think I'd fail their accelerometer test immediately?!
Genuine questions - I know nothing about these things at all.
You say all that , the very fact you haven't claimed for years means you are a low risk, hence probably wont be offered telematics, you have "proved" yourself to insurers and (presuming) you haven't made a claim in 20 years (or at least a major one) The reason for my question is that I, and others I'm sure, frequently corner and accelerate pretty quickly, when safe to do so, but I'm very keen on observation and safe stopping distances, so like many others like me have managed just over 20 years of safe driving, currently at just over 40k miles a year. Surely I'm an insurance company's dream with that mileage and that safety record, diligently paying my premium every year and never claiming, yet if it's what I think it is, I think I'd fail their accelerometer test immediately?!
Genuine questions - I know nothing about these things at all.
Would you trust a brand new driver 17 years old to be able to make the decision when to accelerate quickly and when to drive within limits? Some maybe, most no, hence the use of Telematics
Edited by TwistingMyMelon on Thursday 2nd April 09:11
The Aviva drive app is similar.
It uses your phone to log parameters like speed, cornering forces and acceleration/braking to a database in the phone (SQL Lite Database).
The app only sends the data when you tell it to (at the end of the mileage period) so if your phone is jailbroken you can edit the database and massage the figures. It does have several sanity checks build it and compares several different tables in the database to see if the data is valid.
Since the telematics boxs are likely a continuous data stream you would need to do signal manipulation on the sensors, numb the accelerometer values with a crafty resistor.
It uses your phone to log parameters like speed, cornering forces and acceleration/braking to a database in the phone (SQL Lite Database).
The app only sends the data when you tell it to (at the end of the mileage period) so if your phone is jailbroken you can edit the database and massage the figures. It does have several sanity checks build it and compares several different tables in the database to see if the data is valid.
Since the telematics boxs are likely a continuous data stream you would need to do signal manipulation on the sensors, numb the accelerometer values with a crafty resistor.
TwistingMyMelon said:
RobM77 said:
Genuine question: is there actually any evidence that links acceleration in any axis (as measured by the aforementioned accelerometer) to the chance of having an accident? If there is, how close is the correlation, and what's to distinguish a timidly driven Impreza from a thrashed Corsa? Or am I just ignorant of how these things work and would a jerky and rough driver generally trigger a greater response than a smooth driver? I can understand jerky drivers being linked to accidents.
The reason for my question is that I, and others I'm sure, frequently corner and accelerate pretty quickly, when safe to do so, but I'm very keen on observation and safe stopping distances, so like many others like me have managed just over 20 years of safe driving, currently at just over 40k miles a year. Surely I'm an insurance company's dream with that mileage and that safety record, diligently paying my premium every year and never claiming, yet if it's what I think it is, I think I'd fail their accelerometer test immediately?!
Genuine questions - I know nothing about these things at all.
You say all that , the very fact you haven't claimed for years means you are a low risk, hence probably wont be offered telematics, you have "proved" yourself to insurers and (presuming) you haven't made a claim in 20 years (or at least a major one) The reason for my question is that I, and others I'm sure, frequently corner and accelerate pretty quickly, when safe to do so, but I'm very keen on observation and safe stopping distances, so like many others like me have managed just over 20 years of safe driving, currently at just over 40k miles a year. Surely I'm an insurance company's dream with that mileage and that safety record, diligently paying my premium every year and never claiming, yet if it's what I think it is, I think I'd fail their accelerometer test immediately?!
Genuine questions - I know nothing about these things at all.
Would you trust a brand new driver 17 years old to be able to make the decision when to accelerate quickly and when to drive within limits? Some maybe, most no, hence the use of Telematics
Edited by TwistingMyMelon on Thursday 2nd April 09:11
I'd guess the accelerometer isn't there to measure how quickly you get off the line, but more so the box takes a snapshot of the last X minutes of driving in the event of a bump, much the same as dashcams work. There'll be some limited storage on the device to retain data in the event of no mobile signal and it'll upload it in the event of a bump as and when it gets signal, or when it's interrogated by the relevant people
feef said:
I'd guess the accelerometer isn't there to measure how quickly you get off the line, but more so the box takes a snapshot of the last X minutes of driving in the event of a bump, much the same as dashcams work. There'll be some limited storage on the device to retain data in the event of no mobile signal and it'll upload it in the event of a bump as and when it gets signal, or when it's interrogated by the relevant people
Ah, I had assumed (probably wrongly), that it recorded and transmitted statistics of how often your acceleration (in all axis, so cornering, braking and increasing speed) exceeded a certain threshold.CarAbuser said:
The Aviva drive app is similar.
It uses your phone to log parameters like speed, cornering forces and acceleration/braking to a database in the phone (SQL Lite Database).
The app only sends the data when you tell it to (at the end of the mileage period) so if your phone is jailbroken you can edit the database and massage the figures. It does have several sanity checks build it and compares several different tables in the database to see if the data is valid.
Since the telematics boxs are likely a continuous data stream you would need to do signal manipulation on the sensors, numb the accelerometer values with a crafty resistor.
I know it's an advert but it shows Paul Whitehouse driving like a saint and then he gets 8.2/10, the average being 6 (his avg, family, nationwide?). Well how the hell do you have to drive to get 10/10?It uses your phone to log parameters like speed, cornering forces and acceleration/braking to a database in the phone (SQL Lite Database).
The app only sends the data when you tell it to (at the end of the mileage period) so if your phone is jailbroken you can edit the database and massage the figures. It does have several sanity checks build it and compares several different tables in the database to see if the data is valid.
Since the telematics boxs are likely a continuous data stream you would need to do signal manipulation on the sensors, numb the accelerometer values with a crafty resistor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctkQRt2HzIE
Qussz said:
I know it's an advert but it shows Paul Whitehouse driving like a saint and then he gets 8.2/10, the average being 6 (his avg, family, nationwide?). Well how the hell do you have to drive to get 10/10?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctkQRt2HzIE
I had the same thought so I tried it out.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctkQRt2HzIE
I did a short journey in the car late at night when there was no traffic and drove like I had the pope in the passenger seat. Then took the data for that short trip and just duplicated it multiple times and fudged the times and speeds a little to make it look good. Still only came out with a 7.something!
gazz81 said:
Surely any driving app would require a well fitted phone holder, I know the phone holder I have wobbles all over the place and every now and again falls off the windscreen! That would make for some interesting data.
The app is quite clever. It uses a sort of common sense equation on the data so it will just invalidate anything it deems unreliable. So if you are sat still indoors and suddenly pull a 3G manoeuvre it will just assume you dropped your phone or are on a roller-coaster.It logs all sots of data including your GPS location and GPS verified speed. Could be quite incriminating.
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