"Avoid Thrashed Examples"
Discussion
I was reading an article yesterday in Autocar about buying the Mk2 Audi TT and it mentioned avoiding a certain model/year/price as many have been thrashed.
The model in question that they chose was a 2008 on 2.0 TFSi priced from £8,500 but what got me thinking as you see this term "thrashed" a lot in the various pages of magazines and forums etc is how thrashed is thrashed really? To me thrashed means the poor car in question has been well and truly abused from cradle to almost grave - now I am sure that there are exceptions where some owners do indeed have zero mechanical sympathy fro their cars and drive them to the redline all day every day - that to me is thrashed (although quite how you tell is beyond me if on the surface the car looks mint).
The term is by no means limited to this car but hundreds if not thousands of other car models however in this example the motor kicks out a very strong 264bhp so would there be any need to "thrash" a car with this much power when it can be pedalled along at a fair lick without really trying? Would that even be possible on crowded UK roads properly using every single one of the 264 horses - surely this is not possible and in this example the TT is hardly the Golf R of the motoring world at the moment - you expect to see every R being driven like it was stolen (for some reason) but not the hairdressers TT ! It just doesnt add up. Ive only ever seen one Audi TT being thrashed momentarily a year or so back - it was a TTRS and the driver was giving it the beans to catch me- it was actually great to hear the 2.5 as it whooshed past me but you dont see TT's being caned. I would have thought owners of the old 150bhp 1.8T might have more need to thrash the car given the lower output but again it wouldnt be all day - it might be to sprint off the lights and thats it for the rest of the month !
Interested in what other PH'rs think about the term thrashed - is it overused and is it meaningless? If the cars been correctly serviced and everything looks as you expect and the miles are not of another world how would know it was truly thrashed? IMHO you wouldnt know how often the motor had seen the redline.
Not only that I think most cars can AND DO take a pummelling every now and again as manufacturers put in a degree of tolerance to ensure engines stay safe maybe as far as going into limp mode. We've all thrashed our cars at some point but that does not in itself constitute a car that has been thrashed in the context referred to here.
The model in question that they chose was a 2008 on 2.0 TFSi priced from £8,500 but what got me thinking as you see this term "thrashed" a lot in the various pages of magazines and forums etc is how thrashed is thrashed really? To me thrashed means the poor car in question has been well and truly abused from cradle to almost grave - now I am sure that there are exceptions where some owners do indeed have zero mechanical sympathy fro their cars and drive them to the redline all day every day - that to me is thrashed (although quite how you tell is beyond me if on the surface the car looks mint).
The term is by no means limited to this car but hundreds if not thousands of other car models however in this example the motor kicks out a very strong 264bhp so would there be any need to "thrash" a car with this much power when it can be pedalled along at a fair lick without really trying? Would that even be possible on crowded UK roads properly using every single one of the 264 horses - surely this is not possible and in this example the TT is hardly the Golf R of the motoring world at the moment - you expect to see every R being driven like it was stolen (for some reason) but not the hairdressers TT ! It just doesnt add up. Ive only ever seen one Audi TT being thrashed momentarily a year or so back - it was a TTRS and the driver was giving it the beans to catch me- it was actually great to hear the 2.5 as it whooshed past me but you dont see TT's being caned. I would have thought owners of the old 150bhp 1.8T might have more need to thrash the car given the lower output but again it wouldnt be all day - it might be to sprint off the lights and thats it for the rest of the month !
Interested in what other PH'rs think about the term thrashed - is it overused and is it meaningless? If the cars been correctly serviced and everything looks as you expect and the miles are not of another world how would know it was truly thrashed? IMHO you wouldnt know how often the motor had seen the redline.
Not only that I think most cars can AND DO take a pummelling every now and again as manufacturers put in a degree of tolerance to ensure engines stay safe maybe as far as going into limp mode. We've all thrashed our cars at some point but that does not in itself constitute a car that has been thrashed in the context referred to here.
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hstewie said:
hstewie said: I tend to associate "thrashed" with driving like you stole it from cold rather than simple driving hard.
I'd agree.
And on that point, provided it's been serviced appropriately, I'd much rather buy a car that's been driven hard once up to temperature, rather than a car that's never seen 3k.
Its largely meaningless, like you say it is difficult to "Thrash" cars the faster they are as you end up risking your license before the engine, more difficult now with auto boxes being more prevalent as well, the box tends to protect the engine from ham fisted driving than the manual.
Nobody puts "Thrashed example" on an advert so you think "Autocar said to avoid Thrashed Examples".
You just cant tell, a car being scruffy doesnt guarantee it hasnt been driven very hard, plenty of PHer will have cars that have been driven hard but are pristine, plenty of TT owners may have treated it like crap, not serviced it but never been over 4000 rpm, not that that is really a good thing, engines need warming up properly and taking through the rev range.
Do your research, Avoid dodgy sellers in manky locations selling sheds, try and get some history to say its at least had some oil changes, does the owner sound like a cretin, how long have they had it, why are they selling, go and see it and trust your gut instinct.
Nobody puts "Thrashed example" on an advert so you think "Autocar said to avoid Thrashed Examples".
You just cant tell, a car being scruffy doesnt guarantee it hasnt been driven very hard, plenty of PHer will have cars that have been driven hard but are pristine, plenty of TT owners may have treated it like crap, not serviced it but never been over 4000 rpm, not that that is really a good thing, engines need warming up properly and taking through the rev range.
Do your research, Avoid dodgy sellers in manky locations selling sheds, try and get some history to say its at least had some oil changes, does the owner sound like a cretin, how long have they had it, why are they selling, go and see it and trust your gut instinct.
- Oh and dont think you are too clever to ignore your own advice and get bored looking and just buy a ropey TT, been there !
J4CKO said:
Its largely meaningless, like you say it is difficult to "Thrash" cars the faster they are as you end up risking your license before the engine, more difficult now with auto boxes being more prevalent as well, the box tends to protect the engine from ham fisted driving than the manual.
Nobody puts "Thrashed example" on an advert so you think "Autocar said to avoid Thrashed Examples".
You just cant tell, a car being scruffy doesnt guarantee it hasnt been driven very hard, plenty of PHer will have cars that have been driven hard but are pristine, plenty of TT owners may have treated it like crap, not serviced it but never been over 4000 rpm, not that that is really a good thing, engines need warming up properly and taking through the rev range.
Do your research, Avoid dodgy sellers in manky locations selling sheds, try and get some history to say its at least had some oil changes, does the owner sound like a cretin, how long have they had it, why are they selling, go and see it and trust your gut instinct.
I agree it is difficult to be a thrasher I never even tried and I still got so many points that a solicitor had to save me in counrt when I hit 14 points . Nobody puts "Thrashed example" on an advert so you think "Autocar said to avoid Thrashed Examples".
You just cant tell, a car being scruffy doesnt guarantee it hasnt been driven very hard, plenty of PHer will have cars that have been driven hard but are pristine, plenty of TT owners may have treated it like crap, not serviced it but never been over 4000 rpm, not that that is really a good thing, engines need warming up properly and taking through the rev range.
Do your research, Avoid dodgy sellers in manky locations selling sheds, try and get some history to say its at least had some oil changes, does the owner sound like a cretin, how long have they had it, why are they selling, go and see it and trust your gut instinct.
- Oh and dont think you are too clever to ignore your own advice and get bored looking and just buy a ropey TT, been there !
I drive like a num now and for the first time in 20 years I have a clean sheet but I think it is impossible to live a life of hammering it now .You would get caught
'Thrashed' is a subjective term.
Have I thrashed my TT by doing a track day in it?
I don't think so because the nanny aids and a dose of self presevation make sure its kept well within its operating limits and as a car enthusiast I know I will be looking after it properly.
To me a thrashed example has been owned by someone who can't or won't get it maintained properly and I would rather see evidence of proper maintenance over worrying if someone had enjoyed the performance.
Have I thrashed my TT by doing a track day in it?
I don't think so because the nanny aids and a dose of self presevation make sure its kept well within its operating limits and as a car enthusiast I know I will be looking after it properly.
To me a thrashed example has been owned by someone who can't or won't get it maintained properly and I would rather see evidence of proper maintenance over worrying if someone had enjoyed the performance.
Zooks said:
'Thrashed' is a subjective term.
Have I thrashed my TT by doing a track day in it?
I don't think so because the nanny aids and a dose of self presevation make sure its kept well within its operating limits and as a car enthusiast I know I will be looking after it properly.
To me a thrashed example has been owned by someone who can't or won't get it maintained properly and I would rather see evidence of proper maintenance over worrying if someone had enjoyed the performance.
Was it self preservation or just pride Have I thrashed my TT by doing a track day in it?
I don't think so because the nanny aids and a dose of self presevation make sure its kept well within its operating limits and as a car enthusiast I know I will be looking after it properly.
To me a thrashed example has been owned by someone who can't or won't get it maintained properly and I would rather see evidence of proper maintenance over worrying if someone had enjoyed the performance.
Giving the engine a good service, new tyres, brakes when required, replacing TREs, ball joints etc, possibly new shocks... These are things that could transform the feel of a car from thrashed to cherished.
If a car has missed basic maintenance and refresh over the years, to me that could make it feel "loose", thrashed, even if it's just been driven normally.
If a car has missed basic maintenance and refresh over the years, to me that could make it feel "loose", thrashed, even if it's just been driven normally.
If you get within 500rpm of the red line on a Sunday afternoon on a B-road wearing string back driving gloves and listening to Top Gear's 50 Best Driving Anthems then it's "spirited driving".
If you do the same thing on a Saturday night in McDonalds car park wearing a baseball cap and listening to Gangsta Rap then it's "thrashed".
HTH
If you do the same thing on a Saturday night in McDonalds car park wearing a baseball cap and listening to Gangsta Rap then it's "thrashed".
HTH
For me the word "thrashed" can be substituted for "abused".
--Abuse = driving hard from cold, taking speed humps too fast and damaging suspension, kerbing wheels every time you park it, in the case of a turbo charged car, switching off the engine immediately after a hard drive and not letting the engine cool.
Difficult sometimes to tell if a car has been abused, but there are tell tale signs I would say. I agree that the TT is not a prime candidate for abuse.
--Abuse = driving hard from cold, taking speed humps too fast and damaging suspension, kerbing wheels every time you park it, in the case of a turbo charged car, switching off the engine immediately after a hard drive and not letting the engine cool.
Difficult sometimes to tell if a car has been abused, but there are tell tale signs I would say. I agree that the TT is not a prime candidate for abuse.
I regularly hit the red line in my car, spin wheels on exits to roundabouts, hear tyre squeal cornering hard and take off on humps on the road.
I drive hot hatches. That's how they are driven. I have them serviced as recommended by manufacturers, replace components that wear out and repair/replace components that break.
Car is washed, polished, clean inside, serviced and driven by a 50 something.
Should buyers beware that the 50 something spends a lot more time going flat oot than most imagine?
I drive hot hatches. That's how they are driven. I have them serviced as recommended by manufacturers, replace components that wear out and repair/replace components that break.
Car is washed, polished, clean inside, serviced and driven by a 50 something.
Should buyers beware that the 50 something spends a lot more time going flat oot than most imagine?
If you drive different examples of the same car it will soon become apparent which has been thrashed. IMO a thrashed car develops a looseness, a slackness in some/all of its controls and in some/all of its response to those controls. There's also the question of appearance, where lowered suspension, an aftermarket air filter and a zorst rarely mean "one careful lady owner".
To "avoid thrashed examples" you need to watch out for boy racers who "put the car back to standard" before sale. Why do they do this? To deceive buyers about the car's past which would otherwise push the price down. For this reason it's vital to focus on the test drives and make sure the car you buy is the car that feels best on the road.
A few revs do no harm to a rev-limited modern engine but an over-rev from a missed downchange is a different story. As is labouring from cold.
A car that's been used badly will in usually have tell-tale signs in an overall looseness/slackness/sloppiness. Try to avoid.
To "avoid thrashed examples" you need to watch out for boy racers who "put the car back to standard" before sale. Why do they do this? To deceive buyers about the car's past which would otherwise push the price down. For this reason it's vital to focus on the test drives and make sure the car you buy is the car that feels best on the road.
A few revs do no harm to a rev-limited modern engine but an over-rev from a missed downchange is a different story. As is labouring from cold.
A car that's been used badly will in usually have tell-tale signs in an overall looseness/slackness/sloppiness. Try to avoid.
rockin said:
A few revs do no harm to a rev-limited modern engine but an over-rev from a missed downchange is a different story. As is labouring from cold.
Labouring is likely to do far more damage than letting it rev. As is letting an engine tick over for ages to "warm it up". Your best bet is to just drive it normally and just not give it full throttle and the red line until it's warm.On the subject of warming up, it depends on the engine but least load (and hence wear) on cam lobes etc is way over tickover and actually they're going to get *more* wear at tickover than being revved. For the bikes, HRC (and they know their stuff) for example recommend to warm up the race 400's at 5-6k (redline at 14.5k).
Personally I go for no more than 3/4 throttle and keep it under 4k until the water temp is up (which doesn't take long) then drive it like I stole it. I don't worry about oil temp, frankly life is too short and it's not a Porsche so it's not likely to explode into a million pieces if you look at it funny.
Fastdruid said:
rockin said:
A few revs do no harm to a rev-limited modern engine but an over-rev from a missed downchange is a different story. As is labouring from cold.
Labouring is likely to do far more damage than letting it rev. As is letting an engine tick over for ages to "warm it up". Your best bet is to just drive it normally and just not give it full throttle and the red line until it's warm.On the subject of warming up, it depends on the engine but least load (and hence wear) on cam lobes etc is way over tickover and actually they're going to get *more* wear at tickover than being revved. For the bikes, HRC (and they know their stuff) for example recommend to warm up the race 400's at 5-6k (redline at 14.5k).
Personally I go for no more than 3/4 throttle and keep it under 4k until the water temp is up (which doesn't take long) then drive it like I stole it. I don't worry about oil temp, frankly life is too short and it's not a Porsche so it's not likely to explode into a million pieces if you look at it funny.
I'm also not convinced by the oil having to be up to temp, yes it works best at the correct temp but surely most wear is actually caused by the tolerance between the metal components which have different rates of thermal expansion, my conclusion being if the water is at operating temp then the metal components must also be at their normal operating temps too and therefore feel free to use the engine normally?
You can't avoid thrashed examples, there isn't a way of telling the manner in which previous owners had driven the car. Most performance cars have probably been thrashed, also Fiesta ST's, just because I had one. I 'thrashed' it everyday going to work, using all the revs very often (most overtakes). It was a joy to drive it like this and it was made to do this. In fact most cars engines are made to be revved out when required as long as the engine is serviced in a timely manner as per manufacturer recommendations.
I'd personally prefer to buy a used car that was 'thrashed' but maintained well with regular oil changes in comparison to a car that has rarely seen above 4K rpm in it's life and has possibly missed a few service intervals. A heavy TT with 264bhp isn't exactly a rocket ship. You could easily deploy all of its power everyday without worrying IMO.
I think the term is meaningless in that it it can't be confirmed, so usually the phrase is attached to cars that have the stereotypical image of being thrashed, such as small hatchbacks popular with 17-21 year olds, Impreza's, Evo's & Type R's used to have that stigma, although probably rightly so. Now VAG hatches probably have the stereotypical image of cars being thrashed, IMO anyway rightly or wrongly. Go onto Youtube and you will find plenty videos of S3/RS3's, Golf R's and A45 AMG's being thrashed.
I'd personally prefer to buy a used car that was 'thrashed' but maintained well with regular oil changes in comparison to a car that has rarely seen above 4K rpm in it's life and has possibly missed a few service intervals. A heavy TT with 264bhp isn't exactly a rocket ship. You could easily deploy all of its power everyday without worrying IMO.
I think the term is meaningless in that it it can't be confirmed, so usually the phrase is attached to cars that have the stereotypical image of being thrashed, such as small hatchbacks popular with 17-21 year olds, Impreza's, Evo's & Type R's used to have that stigma, although probably rightly so. Now VAG hatches probably have the stereotypical image of cars being thrashed, IMO anyway rightly or wrongly. Go onto Youtube and you will find plenty videos of S3/RS3's, Golf R's and A45 AMG's being thrashed.
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