Trackdays potentially invalidating insurance policy
Discussion
Odd situation I've not been in before.
Took out a cheap policy on my track car, low mileage of 1k per year. All mods declared, everything seems good.
Had a validation call with the Insurers where as usual they they went thorough all my details, stated that the car it's not insured for racing etc, to which I said that's fine as I use another insurer for track days.
On hearing that, the guy on the phone sounded surprised that the car goes on track. I said that it does, hence why I declared a roll cage and seat changes/removal, but that these events occur away from the public highway and are private. He said he's going to have to speak to the underwriters as he thinks they won't insure my car at all if its used on trackdays, even though I said I'm not wanting cover at these times. I explained my mileage would still be under 1k even with the trackdays.
I've phoned them back, but they still haven't got an answer as to whether I'm insured or not. I paid for the policy in full on Sunday.
Anyone been in this situation?
Took out a cheap policy on my track car, low mileage of 1k per year. All mods declared, everything seems good.
Had a validation call with the Insurers where as usual they they went thorough all my details, stated that the car it's not insured for racing etc, to which I said that's fine as I use another insurer for track days.
On hearing that, the guy on the phone sounded surprised that the car goes on track. I said that it does, hence why I declared a roll cage and seat changes/removal, but that these events occur away from the public highway and are private. He said he's going to have to speak to the underwriters as he thinks they won't insure my car at all if its used on trackdays, even though I said I'm not wanting cover at these times. I explained my mileage would still be under 1k even with the trackdays.
I've phoned them back, but they still haven't got an answer as to whether I'm insured or not. I paid for the policy in full on Sunday.
Anyone been in this situation?
Pebbles167 said:
Odd situation I've not been in before.
Took out a cheap policy on my track car, low mileage of 1k per year. All mods declared, everything seems good.
Had a validation call with the Insurers where as usual they they went thorough all my details, stated that the car it's not insured for racing etc, to which I said that's fine as I use another insurer for track days.
On hearing that, the guy on the phone sounded surprised that the car goes on track. I said that it does, hence why I declared a roll cage and seat changes/removal, but that these events occur away from the public highway and are private. He said he's going to have to speak to the underwriters as he thinks they won't insure my car at all if its used on trackdays, even though I said I'm not wanting cover at these times. I explained my mileage would still be under 1k even with the trackdays.
I've phoned them back, but they still haven't got an answer as to whether I'm insured or not. I paid for the policy in full on Sunday.
Anyone been in this situation?
Almost all mainstream insurers will not insure a car for road use that is also used for trackdays or motorsport. I expect its related to, or the perceived risk of, claims arising from a track crash, followed by dragging the car down the road and claiming it happened on public roads.Took out a cheap policy on my track car, low mileage of 1k per year. All mods declared, everything seems good.
Had a validation call with the Insurers where as usual they they went thorough all my details, stated that the car it's not insured for racing etc, to which I said that's fine as I use another insurer for track days.
On hearing that, the guy on the phone sounded surprised that the car goes on track. I said that it does, hence why I declared a roll cage and seat changes/removal, but that these events occur away from the public highway and are private. He said he's going to have to speak to the underwriters as he thinks they won't insure my car at all if its used on trackdays, even though I said I'm not wanting cover at these times. I explained my mileage would still be under 1k even with the trackdays.
I've phoned them back, but they still haven't got an answer as to whether I'm insured or not. I paid for the policy in full on Sunday.
Anyone been in this situation?
The policy wording is typically [deliberately] ambiguous around this: it looks like you aren't covered for track days, but they actually mean you aren't covered at all if the car is used for them during the term of the insurance.
Plenty of classic/specialist insurers are fine , but not all.
Depending on your attitude to risk and honesty, You have to decide whether you want to declare this to your insurer, as they are unlikely to find out (though best not to tell them you were on your way to a track day when you get rear ended at a junction).
Perfectly reasonable for an insurer not to insure someone that uses their car for track days, even if that cover isn't being provided. Just like they don't insure people with certain occupations, even if the car is covered for pleasure use only. They may decide it's a moral hazard, and that people who go on track days are into speed and may drive faster on the road. Just not the type of customer they are looking for.
I suspect 95% of drivers have never been on a track day and have no interest in going.
I suspect 95% of drivers have never been on a track day and have no interest in going.
Mighty Flex said:
The policy wording is typically [deliberately] ambiguous around this: it looks like you aren't covered for track days, *but they actually mean you aren't covered at all if the car is used for them during the term of the insurance.*
Any evidence of this? I've never heard of such a condition, and I've just checked the policy booklet for a very large insurer and it doesn't exist there either.Olivera said:
Mighty Flex said:
The policy wording is typically [deliberately] ambiguous around this: it looks like you aren't covered for track days, *but they actually mean you aren't covered at all if the car is used for them during the term of the insurance.*
Any evidence of this? I've never heard of such a condition, and I've just checked the policy booklet for a very large insurer and it doesn't exist there either.A lot of insurance policies exclude any form of competition use. A track day will be classed as a competition - on a race track, as it'll be difficult to describe it any other way for the purposes of insurance.
The best you can hope for is a re-rating of the policy. Refusal will follow you like a bad smell, and it will almost certainly cost an admin fee to be deducted from any refund that you might get.
The best you can hope for is a re-rating of the policy. Refusal will follow you like a bad smell, and it will almost certainly cost an admin fee to be deducted from any refund that you might get.
Thanks for the replies all. Still not heard from them.
maz8062 said:
The best you can hope for is a re-rating of the policy. Refusal will follow you like a bad smell, and it will almost certainly cost an admin fee to be deducted from any refund that you might get.
Cant I just cancel the policy and go elsewhere? Pebbles167 said:
Thanks for the replies all. Still not heard from them.
If you think they'll refuse it best to cancel beforehand and stump up for any admin charges. If the plan is refused, canceled, or loaded, you'll have to declare it in the future.maz8062 said:
The best you can hope for is a re-rating of the policy. Refusal will follow you like a bad smell, and it will almost certainly cost an admin fee to be deducted from any refund that you might get.
Cant I just cancel the policy and go elsewhere? 
maz8062 said:
A track day will be classed as a competition - on a race track, as it'll be difficult to describe it any other way for the purposes of insurance.
Unfortunate and erroneous if true. It has been massively emphasised in the briefing on every TD I have attended that it is non competitive event and you will be asked to leave PDQ if seen to be ‘racing’ or using any form of timing gear. It is something the TD industry are massively precious about. Thankfully there are some enlightened brokers out there that view TD-ers as conscientious individuals trying to improve their driving skills in a safe environment rather than gung-ho risk takers. I’d suggest seeking out and talking to a couple of such brokers. From experience there can be a real ‘drawbridge up’ attitude from mainstream insurers as soon as trackdays are even enquired about.Edited by darren f on Wednesday 6th May 17:10
Edited by darren f on Wednesday 6th May 17:17
maz8062 said:
A track day will be classed as a competition - on a race track, as it'll be difficult to describe it any other way for the purposes of insurance.
That's incorrect. A track day is a non-competitive event by definition. Look at any TDO paperwork, briefing or disclaimer and that's made abundantly clear. Only a disingenuous insurer would argue that. I had my old porsche insured with direct line and then cornmarket (IAM surety) and specifically asked about this and was told that it was not an issue but obviously the car would not be insured for damage that occurred on track... Which is fair enough.
I'm now with A-Plan (who I cannot recommend enough) and the car is insured on road and on track (albeit with different terms).
I think the guy you spoke to may just be getting confused - One insurance advisor once asked me if a track day was taking my car down green lanes...
I'm now with A-Plan (who I cannot recommend enough) and the car is insured on road and on track (albeit with different terms).
I think the guy you spoke to may just be getting confused - One insurance advisor once asked me if a track day was taking my car down green lanes...
I don't understand what an event (trackday) held on private land has to do with the insurers who are only insuring your car for road use and parking at your home? What is it to them? I roughly remember a policy wording saying "you will not be covered for .... all damage or loss caused by civil commotion". So that is like cancelling/invalidating everyone's cover/policy for road use just because XR are going around damaging property.
Mighty Flex said:
Almost all mainstream insurers will not insure a car for road use that is also used for trackdays or motorsport. I expect its related to, or the perceived risk of, claims arising from a track crash, followed by dragging the car down the road and claiming it happened on public roads.
The policy wording is typically [deliberately] ambiguous around this: it looks like you aren't covered for track days, but they actually mean you aren't covered at all if the car is used for them during the term of the insurance.
Plenty of classic/specialist insurers are fine , but not all.
Depending on your attitude to risk and honesty, You have to decide whether you want to declare this to your insurer, as they are unlikely to find out (though best not to tell them you were on your way to a track day when you get rear ended at a junction).
Not sure you're right on that. Most insurers won't cover you for using the car on a track day, but that doesn't mean if you use the car on a track, they won't cover you when driving on public roads.The policy wording is typically [deliberately] ambiguous around this: it looks like you aren't covered for track days, but they actually mean you aren't covered at all if the car is used for them during the term of the insurance.
Plenty of classic/specialist insurers are fine , but not all.
Depending on your attitude to risk and honesty, You have to decide whether you want to declare this to your insurer, as they are unlikely to find out (though best not to tell them you were on your way to a track day when you get rear ended at a junction).
321boost said:
I don't understand what an event (trackday) held on private land has to do with the insurers who are only insuring your car for road use and parking at your home?
Absolutely nothing. It's not an underwriting criteria, they don't screen on it. Hopefully that won't change. TwigtheWonderkid said:
Perfectly reasonable for an insurer not to insure someone that uses their car for track days, even if that cover isn't being provided. Just like they don't insure people with certain occupations, even if the car is covered for pleasure use only. They may decide it's a moral hazard, and that people who go on track days are into speed and may drive faster on the road. Just not the type of customer they are looking for.
I suspect 95% of drivers have never been on a track day and have no interest in going.
Why don't they ask about your hobbies then?I suspect 95% of drivers have never been on a track day and have no interest in going.
What does it matter if they insure the exact car you use on a track.
If you sell insurance, you have to make it clear what you don't insure, it's not reasonable to offer car insurance, then find something else out about the person or the car covered you didn't ask about and decide you no longer want to insure it.
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