What makes a car 'engaging' ?
Discussion
Thinking on the way in to work..
best way to make a car engaging or give it character is to just overpower it, right?
Current breed of hot hatches as an example, very clinical, composed, easy to go very fast.
Easy answer, just give it too much power so you have to 'grip it with both hands' and fight with it all the way to redline ?
best way to make a car engaging or give it character is to just overpower it, right?
Current breed of hot hatches as an example, very clinical, composed, easy to go very fast.
Easy answer, just give it too much power so you have to 'grip it with both hands' and fight with it all the way to redline ?
Power isnt the answer, it helps but it's not the key.
Its mainly control harmony, having communicative steering, a good gear shift, pedals that have good feedback.
The chassis needs to be balanced, not just in terms of weight distribution but also in feel.
Most people think a rock hard ride and lots of power makes a car engaging, but go and drive a caterham or an mx5, you'll see how much more engaging they are.
Its mainly control harmony, having communicative steering, a good gear shift, pedals that have good feedback.
The chassis needs to be balanced, not just in terms of weight distribution but also in feel.
Most people think a rock hard ride and lots of power makes a car engaging, but go and drive a caterham or an mx5, you'll see how much more engaging they are.
Engaging is all about correct feedback.
Does the steering feel correctly weighted, can you "feel" what the front wheels are doing.
Handling, can you "feel" what the rear wheels are doing through the seat.
Ride, is it supple, not floaty or crashing, but just right.
Can you "hear" what the engine is doing, does it sound nice.
This is one of the reasons older BMW's are always thrown up as engaging:
Rear wheel drive - this makes the steering feel much better
Rear wheel drive - this normally means you can feel what the back end is doing through the seat
Straight 6 engines - they are sublime all the way to the red line.
Suspension is generally ok, and can be better on smaller wheels.
I can confirm that my 03 3 series (325) was very engaging, just right in nearly all departments. Later ones (07 onwards?) had electric steering, I've not driven one, but apparently not as good as the HPAS of old.
Does the steering feel correctly weighted, can you "feel" what the front wheels are doing.
Handling, can you "feel" what the rear wheels are doing through the seat.
Ride, is it supple, not floaty or crashing, but just right.
Can you "hear" what the engine is doing, does it sound nice.
This is one of the reasons older BMW's are always thrown up as engaging:
Rear wheel drive - this makes the steering feel much better
Rear wheel drive - this normally means you can feel what the back end is doing through the seat
Straight 6 engines - they are sublime all the way to the red line.
Suspension is generally ok, and can be better on smaller wheels.
I can confirm that my 03 3 series (325) was very engaging, just right in nearly all departments. Later ones (07 onwards?) had electric steering, I've not driven one, but apparently not as good as the HPAS of old.
Edited by Olivergt on Tuesday 24th May 11:28
I don't think power is the answer as a blanket coverall.
As someone mentioned above plenty of hot hatches now have 300+ BHP and AWD and anyone can drive them fast, just jump in and mash the accelerator seems to work for most of them especially with an auto gearbox doing all the work.
I own a BMW M240i with manual gearbox which is a nice place to be and a relatively quick car but it's not overly engaging.
I also own a 20 yr old Porsche Boxster again a manual whcih doesn't have all the driver aids of the BMW and needs some effort to drive it fast and it's far more engaging to drive despite being over 100bhp down on the BMW.
As someone mentioned above plenty of hot hatches now have 300+ BHP and AWD and anyone can drive them fast, just jump in and mash the accelerator seems to work for most of them especially with an auto gearbox doing all the work.
I own a BMW M240i with manual gearbox which is a nice place to be and a relatively quick car but it's not overly engaging.
I also own a 20 yr old Porsche Boxster again a manual whcih doesn't have all the driver aids of the BMW and needs some effort to drive it fast and it's far more engaging to drive despite being over 100bhp down on the BMW.
I think it very much differs depending on the car itself and they can all be engaging in different ways.
I'd say my S Class is engaging because it's effortlessly nice to drive, you need to go somewhere and it's comfortable and enjoyable purely for that reason. It has a lot of torque so it shifts but it's engaging for being something you can cover distances in complete comfort.
By contrast, my Shogun Sport is slow, an effort to drive and you really have to drive it properly. In turn it's engaging because you have to really learn to get the most from it. My Twingo 133 is similar although is small and has great handling. My CLS63 is actually a sharp handling car for it's size, it's not far off the comfort of the S but it's the 6.2 V8 that makes it engaging. All different cars but engaging for different reasons.
I can understand the clinical feel of some modern cars. As fast as an A45S is, I don't hanker for one yet I'm sure the speed would be enjoyable. Sometimes things that are too competent feel a bit less involving.
I'd say my S Class is engaging because it's effortlessly nice to drive, you need to go somewhere and it's comfortable and enjoyable purely for that reason. It has a lot of torque so it shifts but it's engaging for being something you can cover distances in complete comfort.
By contrast, my Shogun Sport is slow, an effort to drive and you really have to drive it properly. In turn it's engaging because you have to really learn to get the most from it. My Twingo 133 is similar although is small and has great handling. My CLS63 is actually a sharp handling car for it's size, it's not far off the comfort of the S but it's the 6.2 V8 that makes it engaging. All different cars but engaging for different reasons.
I can understand the clinical feel of some modern cars. As fast as an A45S is, I don't hanker for one yet I'm sure the speed would be enjoyable. Sometimes things that are too competent feel a bit less involving.
Pixelpeep 135 said:
Thinking on the way in to work..
best way to make a car engaging or give it character is to just overpower it, right?
Current breed of hot hatches as an example, very clinical, composed, easy to go very fast.
Easy answer, just give it too much power so you have to 'grip it with both hands' and fight with it all the way to redline ?
Driving engagement is about the driver doing stuff. The current crop of fast hatches dissociate the driver from doing stuff.best way to make a car engaging or give it character is to just overpower it, right?
Current breed of hot hatches as an example, very clinical, composed, easy to go very fast.
Easy answer, just give it too much power so you have to 'grip it with both hands' and fight with it all the way to redline ?
If you want engaging, get a caterham or a Lotus.
Pixelpeep 135 said:
Thinking on the way in to work..
best way to make a car engaging or give it character is to just overpower it, right?
Current breed of hot hatches as an example, very clinical, composed, easy to go very fast.
Easy answer, just give it too much power so you have to 'grip it with both hands' and fight with it all the way to redline ?
It depends. But I'd say no to power being the answer in most cases. FWD hatches can be somewhat boring, just making them faster won't make them interesting. And most of the time power just makes them completely annoying as they will spin the wheels too much.best way to make a car engaging or give it character is to just overpower it, right?
Current breed of hot hatches as an example, very clinical, composed, easy to go very fast.
Easy answer, just give it too much power so you have to 'grip it with both hands' and fight with it all the way to redline ?
'Engaging' can come from the drama and noises a car makes, how you sit in it, where the pedals are. How it reacts when you drive it. The steering, the feel, the engine response. And how the suspension is setup and how the chassis reacts.
A traditional Land Rover Defender (or a Jeep Wrangler like a YJ/TJ) can be very engaging to drive and fun. But not because they are quick or powerful (4.0 litre Jeep was pretty pokey mind..).
TheJimi said:
The glib answer to this is to throw someone the keys to something like a well set up Elise, Mk3 MR2 or MX5 and say "see what what I mean?"
Certainly, My Mk3 MR2 could never be called 'overpowered' but it was just so fun to drive.It was so responsive, the steering was almost at Elise levels and the ability to adjust the chassis with slight changes to the throttle was epic. It sort of lost its handling prowess when all four wheels were pointing at the sky, but that's a different story.
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