Would you drive a joystick controlled car?
Discussion
Why do cars still need steering wheels and pedals? I haven’t read into it but my guess is that steering wheels were there for leverage before PAS and because of familiarity of concept from boats. Pedals - on the floor because it was easier to create direct linkage to the systems they control? I know there are some ancient cars at Beaulieu with controls that look odd to us now (IIRC a tiller preceded the steering wheel) but never really focussed on how different they are to conventional modern set ups.
Manual cars with their clutches and gearboxes preclude a joystick control, but with the huge growth of automatics, and the next wave of huge growth of EVs, surely the time is ripe for some enterprising innovator to shake things up. Pull back to accelerate, push forward to brake, left/right to steer. Button on the joystick to engage reverse. Simple.
Positioning it (left/right/centre) shouldn’t be an issue - one can foresee it emerging from under the dash on a motorised platform which can then be positioned L/R/C by the driver.
Manual cars with their clutches and gearboxes preclude a joystick control, but with the huge growth of automatics, and the next wave of huge growth of EVs, surely the time is ripe for some enterprising innovator to shake things up. Pull back to accelerate, push forward to brake, left/right to steer. Button on the joystick to engage reverse. Simple.
Positioning it (left/right/centre) shouldn’t be an issue - one can foresee it emerging from under the dash on a motorised platform which can then be positioned L/R/C by the driver.
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 31st May 10:58
BlackWidow13 said:
Why do cars still need steering wheels and pedals? I haven’t read into it but my guess is that steering wheels were there for leverage before PAS and because of familiarity of concept from boats. Pedals - on the floor because it was easier to create direct linkage to the systems they control? I know there are some ancient cars at Beaulieu with controls that look odd to us now (IIRC a tiller preceded the steering wheel) but never really focussed on how different they are to conventional modern set ups.
Manual cars with their clutches and gearboxes preclude a joystick control, but with the huge growth of automatics, and the next wave of huge growth of EVs, surely the time is ripe for some enterprising innovator to shake things up. Pull back to accelerate, push forward to brake, left/right to steer. Button on the joystick to engage reverse. Simple.
Positioning it (left/right/centre) shouldn’t be an issue - one can foresee it emerging from under the dash on a motorised platform which can then be positioned L/R/C by the driver.
You first.Manual cars with their clutches and gearboxes preclude a joystick control, but with the huge growth of automatics, and the next wave of huge growth of EVs, surely the time is ripe for some enterprising innovator to shake things up. Pull back to accelerate, push forward to brake, left/right to steer. Button on the joystick to engage reverse. Simple.
Positioning it (left/right/centre) shouldn’t be an issue - one can foresee it emerging from under the dash on a motorised platform which can then be positioned L/R/C by the driver.
Edited by BlackWidow13 on Tuesday 31st May 10:58
As computers exist, it's been fairly easy to try this experiment en masse albeit in a simulated environment. Indeed I expect many of us have tried this in our youth. I found it extraordinarily difficult to control a (simulated car) with a joystick. Adding exponential control to decrease violent jerks off-centre on steering at higher speeds made it less likely to just spin off into a wall from a lane adjustment type move, but made it even more difficult to predict the car at higher steering angles.
Speaking just for myself, I would hate a real car controlled by a joystick.
Speaking just for myself, I would hate a real car controlled by a joystick.
Why would you want to?
It's very easy to maintain a straight line in a car. A joystick with limited travel will need tiny amount of movement and control. Much like inexperienced gamers drivers will zigzag all over the place. Brake and throttle modulating would also be very difficult. Wait for accidental emergency stops.
You'll need the coordination of your strongest hand. Try sitting with one hand grasping a joystick for a few hours.
I'd say pedals and a wheel are here to stay.
It's very easy to maintain a straight line in a car. A joystick with limited travel will need tiny amount of movement and control. Much like inexperienced gamers drivers will zigzag all over the place. Brake and throttle modulating would also be very difficult. Wait for accidental emergency stops.
You'll need the coordination of your strongest hand. Try sitting with one hand grasping a joystick for a few hours.
I'd say pedals and a wheel are here to stay.
BlackWidow13 said:
Why do cars still need steering wheels and pedals? I haven’t read into it but my guess is that steering wheels were there for leverage before PAS and because of familiarity of concept from boats. Pedals - on the floor because it was easier to create direct linkage to the systems they control? I know there are some ancient cars at Beaulieu with controls that look odd to us now (IIRC a tiller preceded the steering wheel) but never really focussed on how different they are to conventional modern set ups.
Manual cars with their clutches and gearboxes preclude a joystick control, but with the huge growth of automatics, and the next wave of huge growth of EVs, surely the time is ripe for some enterprising innovator to shake things up. Pull back to accelerate, push forward to brake, left/right to steer. Button on the joystick to engage reverse. Simple.
Positioning it (left/right/centre) shouldn’t be an issue - one can foresee it emerging from under the dash on a motorised platform which can then be positioned L/R/C by the driver.
Biggest question is why?Manual cars with their clutches and gearboxes preclude a joystick control, but with the huge growth of automatics, and the next wave of huge growth of EVs, surely the time is ripe for some enterprising innovator to shake things up. Pull back to accelerate, push forward to brake, left/right to steer. Button on the joystick to engage reverse. Simple.
Positioning it (left/right/centre) shouldn’t be an issue - one can foresee it emerging from under the dash on a motorised platform which can then be positioned L/R/C by the driver.
Edited by BlackWidow13 on Tuesday 31st May 10:58
Does it actually add anything or is it just a new way of doing the same thing we do now?
thewarlock said:
Na, think of the range of motion of a control stick, then think of how many turns your car is, lock to lock.
I'm also quite a big fan (as are regulatory bodies) of that mechanical connection between the hand wheel and steering wheels
Lexus just introduced the first 'steer by wire' production car. I'm also quite a big fan (as are regulatory bodies) of that mechanical connection between the hand wheel and steering wheels
Me personally, I like some feedback through the wheel even if that means experiencing some vibrations at times.
Imagine playing your favourite racing game on a games console. The immediacy of turning full lock to full lock in less than half a second would cause chaos on the roads for the unfamiliar. Fine adjustments are much more difficult too because cars rarely drive arrow straight down arrow straight roads. Throttle control would be harder too. Even modern consoles have what, 15mm of travel from nothing to WOT? I can't imagine that would be conducive to smooth driving on the roads. I can't think of any reason that wheels and pedals wouldn't be here to stay. It's effective, familiar and relatively easy. Changing to a new control system would mean there's a shift in learning too. Are instructors going to then be a choice of steering wheel or joystick for their students? Would wheel qualified drivers have to take another test to drive joystick cars? That's a lot of confusion to quite literally reinvent the wheel.
In answer to the question in the title, I'd have a go to see what it's like, but I'm not sure I'd make the jump.
I expect the car would have to be very different in how it behave though, eg all wheels can turn 180 degrees or some other futuristic thing, for it to warrant a different control method. Similar to the different controls between a motorbike and a car I guess, different vehicles call for different control methods.
I expect the car would have to be very different in how it behave though, eg all wheels can turn 180 degrees or some other futuristic thing, for it to warrant a different control method. Similar to the different controls between a motorbike and a car I guess, different vehicles call for different control methods.
If we assume we're nearly at the point where self driving is a reality, as opposed to in limited scenarios... then I think the computer could easily help the joystick type steering.
Or put another way, if you've ever played any modern racing games with gamepad or similar you'll see buried in the commands various assistance type settings... not just the obvious "auto brake" or "racing line", but also ones that aid stability, damp jerky inputs etc.
I think that if you can add those sorts of things to the real car then it's be possible to drive with a joypad, joystick or similar.
Would I want to? Nope... I've got used to driving with a wheel and peddles, and then done the motorbike thing which is more or less upside down version. I don't think I'd want to learn another way too.
But that's not to say that the kids of today, who have no experience except driving with joypads etc. wouldn't want to, and would likely be able to.
This assumes of course that by the time the first bit works, we're not all being driven around in Johnny Cabs.
Or put another way, if you've ever played any modern racing games with gamepad or similar you'll see buried in the commands various assistance type settings... not just the obvious "auto brake" or "racing line", but also ones that aid stability, damp jerky inputs etc.
I think that if you can add those sorts of things to the real car then it's be possible to drive with a joypad, joystick or similar.
Would I want to? Nope... I've got used to driving with a wheel and peddles, and then done the motorbike thing which is more or less upside down version. I don't think I'd want to learn another way too.
But that's not to say that the kids of today, who have no experience except driving with joypads etc. wouldn't want to, and would likely be able to.
This assumes of course that by the time the first bit works, we're not all being driven around in Johnny Cabs.
RazerSauber said:
Imagine playing your favourite racing game on a games console. The immediacy of turning full lock to full lock in less than half a second would cause chaos on the roads for the unfamiliar. Fine adjustments are much more difficult too because cars rarely drive arrow straight down arrow straight roads. Throttle control would be harder too. Even modern consoles have what, 15mm of travel from nothing to WOT? I can't imagine that would be conducive to smooth driving on the roads. I can't think of any reason that wheels and pedals wouldn't be here to stay. It's effective, familiar and relatively easy. Changing to a new control system would mean there's a shift in learning too. Are instructors going to then be a choice of steering wheel or joystick for their students? Would wheel qualified drivers have to take another test to drive joystick cars? That's a lot of confusion to quite literally reinvent the wheel.
The US military experimented with a single sidestick control for helicopters in the 1970s. I believe it never left the university/lab environment but a key finding was the tendency for cross-coupled movements. It turns out humans are really bad at only making an input in a single plane at once. In the simulator studies performed for the aforementioned helicopters, a large number of subjects who otherwise had good hand-eye coordination abilities (i.e. they met the criteria to fly for the military) struggled to move the stick e.g left without also moving it slightly forward or backward too. They dropped the idea.jamieduff1981 said:
Indeed I expect many of us have tried this in our youth. I found it extraordinarily difficult to control violent jerks off
Super childish I know but many of us have been there with a joystick 
Agree with your point, a joystick would allow too large a movement for the wheels; can easily imagine a cough or sneeze moving the joystick to maximum wheel angle. Assume that in a plane there is also some pushback though or perhaps it's because the controls aren't as immediate in commercial planes?
I think that in many instances before a crash a natural response would be to put hands up in front of face so a wheel kinda puts them there by default so less chance of letting go and losing control? No evidence for that though! Unless the joystick was front and centre might this be an issue...and would need to work out a driver safety system that wasn't the normal airbag setup otherwise going to impale someone.
Great question though, how would we have designed the driving experience from scratch. Couple of forward/backward levers for either side like a tank?
HelldogBE said:
Lexus just introduced the first 'steer by wire' production car.
Me personally, I like some feedback through the wheel even if that means experiencing some vibrations at times.
I have a 15 year old production Lexus here that begs to differ Me personally, I like some feedback through the wheel even if that means experiencing some vibrations at times.
It's called VGRS - there is a mechanical steering column as a back-up, but it is not used in normal operation. Steering feel exists, but as you allude to, it would never be described as visceral.
(In essence, it's a fancier computerised version of the old Citroen hydropneumatic steering system)
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