If remapping is that good, then why…?
Discussion
I’m thinking about getting my car remapped and looking at reviews etc
Everybody raves about it, says fuel economy is better, power delivery is better AND there’s more power so the cars faster.
What I’m thinking is, why don’t manufacturers just release the cars like that to start with if they’re that much better?
Is remapping the way forward, I’ve vowed to keep my M240i standard but after getting it lowered today at a BMW specialist, he urged me to get it mapped as it improves the car so much and that the B58 engine is made to be tuned while retaining reliability.
I booked it for DMS next week but still contemplating, want to see what peoples thoughts are on this thread.
Everybody raves about it, says fuel economy is better, power delivery is better AND there’s more power so the cars faster.
What I’m thinking is, why don’t manufacturers just release the cars like that to start with if they’re that much better?
Is remapping the way forward, I’ve vowed to keep my M240i standard but after getting it lowered today at a BMW specialist, he urged me to get it mapped as it improves the car so much and that the B58 engine is made to be tuned while retaining reliability.
I booked it for DMS next week but still contemplating, want to see what peoples thoughts are on this thread.
This is an oft covered topic, but the usual answers are that when cars they leave the production-line have to work in extremes of heat (both hot and cold), have to run on poor quality fuel in overseas markets, have to survive being run beyond the standard service intervals without lunching themselves, have to cope with being ragged from cold, and the various connected drive-train components are designed to work within enough tolerance to avoid warranty claims. Conservative maps all help achieve this.
I’m all for mapping, particularly if the car’s out of manufacturers warranty. Free (well, cheap) power and yes - economy is typically better.
I’m all for mapping, particularly if the car’s out of manufacturers warranty. Free (well, cheap) power and yes - economy is typically better.
I got a new ECU chip and bigger intercooler for my TD5 Discovery, which had always felt a bit sluggish and underpowered. The difference was astonishing, loads more torque, it pulled up long hills with no drop in speed.
Unfortunately, this increase in performance was accompanied by lots of black smoke, so much it was embarrassing. It also warped the exhaust manifold breaking the studs.
This mod took it too close to the manufacturers design envelope - in the end it had to go.
I never went down the remap route again, would rather just buy the more powerful vehicle to start with.
Unfortunately, this increase in performance was accompanied by lots of black smoke, so much it was embarrassing. It also warped the exhaust manifold breaking the studs.
This mod took it too close to the manufacturers design envelope - in the end it had to go.
I never went down the remap route again, would rather just buy the more powerful vehicle to start with.
Manufacturers detune engines.
My 981 Cayman S for example exactly the same engine as the Cayman GTS but detuned, I ran stage 2 tune on it which gained the GTS power + a little more on top.
my previous 2014 Cupra 280, SEAT/VW/Audi run this engine as a 300/310 these days, I ran it at 420.
My 981 Cayman S for example exactly the same engine as the Cayman GTS but detuned, I ran stage 2 tune on it which gained the GTS power + a little more on top.
my previous 2014 Cupra 280, SEAT/VW/Audi run this engine as a 300/310 these days, I ran it at 420.
shalmaneser said:
Also consider that manufacturers need to pass much more stringent (now) emissions tests than an MOT so there is more room for optimisation there.
^^ thisRemappers don't really have to give a toss about emissions, just the very cursory MOT test. OEMs have extremely stringent limits to comply with.
Watchthis said:
Word of caution, remaps are never quite as smooth and refined as the manufacturer map. This may or may not bother you
That’s a bit of a blanket statement. Cheap maps can be a bit rubbish, but get a map from one of the established / major players (BBB, Mountune, Revo) and they’re just as drivable as the OEM map. You’d never guess my car had been mapped if you were just pootling about.Remapping can be great.....but I think the key thing to bare in mind is longevity of your vehicle.....from my experience, remapping and/or modifications for power will push many components to the limit of where they should safely be operated on a long term basis.....for me, this has killed both clutches and turbo's....albeit that was on older cars....but this has been echo'd by friends who have ended up with much the same, plus EMLs, additional smoke on dervs, prematurely failed injectors and even a suspicious head gasket failure.
If you want your vehicle to last, my guy feel is to leave engine parameters alone, unless maybe where it is either a manufacturer approved upgrade (as ABT offer on some VAG products for example) or where you know for a fact that the same engine is a de-tuned version and those other components are capable.
Just remember that on older vehicles (lets say 5 year / 60k miles upwards), you have already eaten into a portion of these manufacturer's tolerance due to age degradation / fatigue element, so your additional bunce is already curtailed. Yes you might 'get lucky' with years of fault free performance, but I think that is the exception, not the norm.
If you want your vehicle to last, my guy feel is to leave engine parameters alone, unless maybe where it is either a manufacturer approved upgrade (as ABT offer on some VAG products for example) or where you know for a fact that the same engine is a de-tuned version and those other components are capable.
Just remember that on older vehicles (lets say 5 year / 60k miles upwards), you have already eaten into a portion of these manufacturer's tolerance due to age degradation / fatigue element, so your additional bunce is already curtailed. Yes you might 'get lucky' with years of fault free performance, but I think that is the exception, not the norm.
Export56 said:
I can tell you that our car actually gives less mpg now it was brought into official line after dieselgate. The 'illegal' map the car was sold with was far better.
My brother-in-law only kept his 2011 Golf diesel for a couple of months after the “fix” was applied. He swears to this day that it ruined the car. Fuel consumption went from low 50s to low 40s in the exact same usage pattern, and the effortless, responsive feel that the car had before it was “fixed” disappeared. It felt like it had to be worked much harder to deliver the same performance.His exact words were if he’d known then what he knows now, the letter would’ve gone straight in the bin and not even been opened.
It's my opinion not to remap.
Normally, when a manufacturer releases a performance variant of a car - it's a 'balanced' setup from the factory. By that, I mean a given amount of horsepower with suitable brakes, suspension, handling and grip to match.
Bump the horsepower up by a considerable amount (esp. if turbocharged) and suddenly, the brakes might be inadequate - or you might find yourself barrelling into corners at speeds the suspension cannot cope with. Basically, the balance of the car has been ruined - extra expenditure on the braking and suspension may be required to bring it back into balance once more.
As has been mentioned on here numerous times, the most fun cars to drive tend to be the one's that have a decent chassis - but with 'sufficient' power for a sporty drive. Cars that you can 'wring out' and therefore extract every last horsepower to successfully use on a good British 'B' road. Fun is to be had wringing out such cars.
Cars that are too powerful tend to be 'point and squirt' cars.
So, for me then - I prefer to run my car as it came from the factory. There are some great cars out there that are fabulous right out of the box - and a lot of them don't have gobs of horsepower. It is what it is.
Normally, when a manufacturer releases a performance variant of a car - it's a 'balanced' setup from the factory. By that, I mean a given amount of horsepower with suitable brakes, suspension, handling and grip to match.
Bump the horsepower up by a considerable amount (esp. if turbocharged) and suddenly, the brakes might be inadequate - or you might find yourself barrelling into corners at speeds the suspension cannot cope with. Basically, the balance of the car has been ruined - extra expenditure on the braking and suspension may be required to bring it back into balance once more.
As has been mentioned on here numerous times, the most fun cars to drive tend to be the one's that have a decent chassis - but with 'sufficient' power for a sporty drive. Cars that you can 'wring out' and therefore extract every last horsepower to successfully use on a good British 'B' road. Fun is to be had wringing out such cars.
Cars that are too powerful tend to be 'point and squirt' cars.
So, for me then - I prefer to run my car as it came from the factory. There are some great cars out there that are fabulous right out of the box - and a lot of them don't have gobs of horsepower. It is what it is.
Mainly,
Different tunes/power in the ECU, same engine with like 4 outputs for different models
Limiting torque to protect the drivetrain, gearbox, clutch, driveshafts.
Insurance groupings.
Emissions, car is type approved and ratified on a standard tune, sometimes that negatively affects driveability to meet targets.
Marketing, so as not to tread on the toes power wise of the next model up.
Fuel Quality and servicing.
Customer expectations and requirements, not everyone wants more power.
Tolerance/strength of components, the engine and turbo may support 300 lb ft, but its limited to 200 so its doesnt turn the connecting rods into a Curly Wurly on a hot day.
To give knobheads like me something to play with.
Different tunes/power in the ECU, same engine with like 4 outputs for different models
Limiting torque to protect the drivetrain, gearbox, clutch, driveshafts.
Insurance groupings.
Emissions, car is type approved and ratified on a standard tune, sometimes that negatively affects driveability to meet targets.
Marketing, so as not to tread on the toes power wise of the next model up.
Fuel Quality and servicing.
Customer expectations and requirements, not everyone wants more power.
Tolerance/strength of components, the engine and turbo may support 300 lb ft, but its limited to 200 so its doesnt turn the connecting rods into a Curly Wurly on a hot day.
To give knobheads like me something to play with.
The idea that a remap is going to put the car out of balance and you’ll have to start upgrading brakes and tyres and suspension has some merit if you drive on track, or drive on the road as if you’re on a track. If it means you’re braking for A road bends from 110 instead of 90, for instance, having been WOT since the exit of the last bend. If it means you’re still braking from 60, you just got there quicker and you overtook that last lorry a bit more easily, not so much.
DazzaSport said:
It's my opinion not to remap.
…the brakes might be inadequate - or you might find yourself barrelling into corners at speeds the suspension cannot cope with.
Of course. Mapping has no effect on handling. All it means is more power and that you can get into trouble quicker if you’re stupid with it.…the brakes might be inadequate - or you might find yourself barrelling into corners at speeds the suspension cannot cope with.
I guess this is another reason cars ship with the maps that they have. More power would mean having to sell cars with bigger brakes, …posher suspension, and the majority of people just aren’t interested in exploiting the edge of the envelope when it comes to these stopping and cornering.
Forums | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff