"I'd sell it as-is" "Not worth it"- garages reluctant to fix
Discussion
Several times over the past couple of years I've encountered garages seemingly reluctant to take on work.
Most recently I sold a 'modern classic'. Pre-sale, I knew there was some rust underneath so I found a bodyshop and left it with them. After looking at it, they basically asked "does it still have an MoT? Yes? In that case you'd be better off selling it as it is, rather than having us fix it". This was after they found that as well as the hole in the floor, a whole sill was rusty.
Now, it's not the sort of car a dealer would want, so my only real option is a private sale. My thinking was, I'm not the sort of person to sell a car with a significant issue like that without the buyer being at least aware. But if I do advise it, I'm likely to only get scummy traders making super low-ball offers, or tumbleweed. And a genuine buyer who's aware will want to allow for the risk of the repair costing more, as they won't know exactly how much it'll cost. So all in all it seems a poor path to follow.
In the end they fixed it for just under £2k, and I sold the car for a bit over £20k. I doubt I'd have made 90% of that with it rusty, so it seems to me I was better off fixing it first.
I've had similar with other 'major' issues, it seems quite common that I find myself saying "yes, I know it'll be a lot of money on an old car, but I do want it fixed please".
I can't quite work out why this keeps happening.
Is it because it's a job they don't really want to do? If so, why not charge enough to make it equally attractive as any other job?
Is it because if they were in my position, they'd move the car on without disclosing the issue, and end up financially ahead that way? So they're just looking out for my financial interest?
Is it because they're worried that they'll do the expensive work, and then when presented with the bill I'll turn around and say that's too much for an old car, I can't/won't pay that?
I appreciate that I'm often spending a significant fraction of the car's value, but it's not as if I can sell it broken for as much as it'd be worth fixed, so that doesn't really seem to help.
I know that it happens to me because I tend to skew my purchase price : maintenance cost ratio towards the latter compared to most people, but just because I'd rather pay repair bills than depreciation, that doesn't mean I don't want a working car to either drive or to sell.
Has anyone else encountered this?
Most recently I sold a 'modern classic'. Pre-sale, I knew there was some rust underneath so I found a bodyshop and left it with them. After looking at it, they basically asked "does it still have an MoT? Yes? In that case you'd be better off selling it as it is, rather than having us fix it". This was after they found that as well as the hole in the floor, a whole sill was rusty.
Now, it's not the sort of car a dealer would want, so my only real option is a private sale. My thinking was, I'm not the sort of person to sell a car with a significant issue like that without the buyer being at least aware. But if I do advise it, I'm likely to only get scummy traders making super low-ball offers, or tumbleweed. And a genuine buyer who's aware will want to allow for the risk of the repair costing more, as they won't know exactly how much it'll cost. So all in all it seems a poor path to follow.
In the end they fixed it for just under £2k, and I sold the car for a bit over £20k. I doubt I'd have made 90% of that with it rusty, so it seems to me I was better off fixing it first.
I've had similar with other 'major' issues, it seems quite common that I find myself saying "yes, I know it'll be a lot of money on an old car, but I do want it fixed please".
I can't quite work out why this keeps happening.
Is it because it's a job they don't really want to do? If so, why not charge enough to make it equally attractive as any other job?
Is it because if they were in my position, they'd move the car on without disclosing the issue, and end up financially ahead that way? So they're just looking out for my financial interest?
Is it because they're worried that they'll do the expensive work, and then when presented with the bill I'll turn around and say that's too much for an old car, I can't/won't pay that?
I appreciate that I'm often spending a significant fraction of the car's value, but it's not as if I can sell it broken for as much as it'd be worth fixed, so that doesn't really seem to help.
I know that it happens to me because I tend to skew my purchase price : maintenance cost ratio towards the latter compared to most people, but just because I'd rather pay repair bills than depreciation, that doesn't mean I don't want a working car to either drive or to sell.
Has anyone else encountered this?
The chap who fixes my cars mentioned this sort of thing last time I spoke to him - he said he's been pissed about a few times by people who want expensive work doing on older cars...but then when it comes to paying they decide it's not worth it after all. He doesn't want to ask for payment up front as that often offends, and he's got plenty enough work doing 'normal' jobs so sticks to them.
Even with the run of the mill stuff like discs and pads ive noticed this - took a relatives 67 plate Jeep Renegade for service and MOT this week and they rang about the rear discs/pads needing changed, not a problem fine, but they were really reluctant to do them but were super keen for the regular 'small service'
Ive come to the conclusion that its just laziness tbh.
This garage in particular Ive used for a good 10-12yrs and before it was in the hands of the current owner they were happy to take on all sorts of oily repairs, now it seems more like an MOT station and anything more can go elsewhere.
Ive come to the conclusion that its just laziness tbh.
This garage in particular Ive used for a good 10-12yrs and before it was in the hands of the current owner they were happy to take on all sorts of oily repairs, now it seems more like an MOT station and anything more can go elsewhere.
Roger Irrelevant said:
The chap who fixes my cars mentioned this sort of thing last time I spoke to him - he said he's been pissed about a few times by people who want expensive work doing on older cars...but then when it comes to paying they decide it's not worth it after all. He doesn't want to ask for payment up front as that often offends, and he's got plenty enough work doing 'normal' jobs so sticks to them.
I dont see why people would be offended - cautious, certainly, as once people are paid there is little incentive to do the job and do it well (see builders / plumbers / etc,) I wouldnt mind doing 50/50 etc. but have never been asked.
The other issue is that the £2k of work, underneath a car, is completely hidden. Some people would turn up to collect their car that's had £2k of work and then can't actually see any benefit and have a whinge. I can imagine it's a pain in the ass and leads to some people renegotiating upon payment.
part of the problem is that the most people who repair cars are generally sick of the site of old cars on their last legs. They don't have the same attitude to old cars as enthusiasts do.
The next biggest issue is everyone wants to pay very little to have a car repaired, closely followed by the fact that rust on a car will grow as soon as you start attacking it and when the owner gets a phone call saying the estimate of £500 is now £2k, they don't want it done and you have already spent 2 hours investigating it and will then likely be stuck with a car they can't be bothered to collect.
Far easier to spend your time changing oil and stamping a book.
The next biggest issue is everyone wants to pay very little to have a car repaired, closely followed by the fact that rust on a car will grow as soon as you start attacking it and when the owner gets a phone call saying the estimate of £500 is now £2k, they don't want it done and you have already spent 2 hours investigating it and will then likely be stuck with a car they can't be bothered to collect.
Far easier to spend your time changing oil and stamping a book.
Hi, I'm one of the garage owners who will turn this type of work away.
It's to do with the customers, not the work. Here's why....
a) It's almost impossible to give a price on this type of thing. The other day I was setting the timing on a standard Audi engine, or so I though. Half way through, I needed a specialist setting tool. £70 to hire. When I passed that price on, we had a right old ding dong about the cost of the tool, and about how I hadn't included it. It's just not worth the hassle.
b) Customers don't pay.
c) If they do pay they grumble like mad about the 40 hours work you've spent on your back welding and cutting, and working hard to weld up their s
t old classic. Or you can change 4 sets of discs for the same money.
d) It blocks up the workshop for ages, and you have little flexibility to fit in emergency work, or urgent work that pays well.
e) Customers moan and groan about the length of time things take.
f) There is so much work out there, garages can be picky.
g) This type of work often doesn't get charged at full rates, so is relatively unprofitable compared to other work.
So, customers, sort yourself out. If you want this work done, understand it will be expensive, take a long time, be unpredictable, and you need to pay for it.
It's to do with the customers, not the work. Here's why....
a) It's almost impossible to give a price on this type of thing. The other day I was setting the timing on a standard Audi engine, or so I though. Half way through, I needed a specialist setting tool. £70 to hire. When I passed that price on, we had a right old ding dong about the cost of the tool, and about how I hadn't included it. It's just not worth the hassle.
b) Customers don't pay.
c) If they do pay they grumble like mad about the 40 hours work you've spent on your back welding and cutting, and working hard to weld up their s
t old classic. Or you can change 4 sets of discs for the same money.d) It blocks up the workshop for ages, and you have little flexibility to fit in emergency work, or urgent work that pays well.
e) Customers moan and groan about the length of time things take.
f) There is so much work out there, garages can be picky.
g) This type of work often doesn't get charged at full rates, so is relatively unprofitable compared to other work.
So, customers, sort yourself out. If you want this work done, understand it will be expensive, take a long time, be unpredictable, and you need to pay for it.
bearman68 said:
Hi, I'm one of the garage owners who will turn this type of work away.
It's to do with the customers, not the work. Here's why....
a) It's almost impossible to give a price on this type of thing. The other day I was setting the timing on a standard Audi engine, or so I though. Half way through, I needed a specialist setting tool. £70 to hire. When I passed that price on, we had a right old ding dong about the cost of the tool, and about how I hadn't included it. It's just not worth the hassle.
b) Customers don't pay.
c) If they do pay they grumble like mad about the 40 hours work you've spent on your back welding and cutting, and working hard to weld up their st old classic. Or you can change 4 sets of discs for the same money.
d) It blocks up the workshop for ages, and you have little flexibility to fit in emergency work, or urgent work that pays well.
e) Customers moan and groan about the length of time things take.
f) There is so much work out there, garages can be picky.
g) This type of work often doesn't get charged at full rates, so is relatively unprofitable compared to other work.
So, customers, sort yourself out. If you want this work done, understand it will be expensive, take a long time, be unpredictable, and you need to pay for it.
Sooooo very familiar !It's to do with the customers, not the work. Here's why....
a) It's almost impossible to give a price on this type of thing. The other day I was setting the timing on a standard Audi engine, or so I though. Half way through, I needed a specialist setting tool. £70 to hire. When I passed that price on, we had a right old ding dong about the cost of the tool, and about how I hadn't included it. It's just not worth the hassle.
b) Customers don't pay.
c) If they do pay they grumble like mad about the 40 hours work you've spent on your back welding and cutting, and working hard to weld up their s
t old classic. Or you can change 4 sets of discs for the same money.d) It blocks up the workshop for ages, and you have little flexibility to fit in emergency work, or urgent work that pays well.
e) Customers moan and groan about the length of time things take.
f) There is so much work out there, garages can be picky.
g) This type of work often doesn't get charged at full rates, so is relatively unprofitable compared to other work.
So, customers, sort yourself out. If you want this work done, understand it will be expensive, take a long time, be unpredictable, and you need to pay for it.
Out of interest was the Audi a petrol with active cylinder tech ?
bearman68 said:
Hi, I'm one of the garage owners who will turn this type of work away.
It's to do with the customers, not the work. Here's why....
a) It's almost impossible to give a price on this type of thing. The other day I was setting the timing on a standard Audi engine, or so I though. Half way through, I needed a specialist setting tool. £70 to hire. When I passed that price on, we had a right old ding dong about the cost of the tool, and about how I hadn't included it. It's just not worth the hassle.
b) Customers don't pay.
c) If they do pay they grumble like mad about the 40 hours work you've spent on your back welding and cutting, and working hard to weld up their st old classic. Or you can change 4 sets of discs for the same money.
d) It blocks up the workshop for ages, and you have little flexibility to fit in emergency work, or urgent work that pays well.
e) Customers moan and groan about the length of time things take.
f) There is so much work out there, garages can be picky.
g) This type of work often doesn't get charged at full rates, so is relatively unprofitable compared to other work.
So, customers, sort yourself out. If you want this work done, understand it will be expensive, take a long time, be unpredictable, and you need to pay for it.
Sounds about right. It's to do with the customers, not the work. Here's why....
a) It's almost impossible to give a price on this type of thing. The other day I was setting the timing on a standard Audi engine, or so I though. Half way through, I needed a specialist setting tool. £70 to hire. When I passed that price on, we had a right old ding dong about the cost of the tool, and about how I hadn't included it. It's just not worth the hassle.
b) Customers don't pay.
c) If they do pay they grumble like mad about the 40 hours work you've spent on your back welding and cutting, and working hard to weld up their s
t old classic. Or you can change 4 sets of discs for the same money.d) It blocks up the workshop for ages, and you have little flexibility to fit in emergency work, or urgent work that pays well.
e) Customers moan and groan about the length of time things take.
f) There is so much work out there, garages can be picky.
g) This type of work often doesn't get charged at full rates, so is relatively unprofitable compared to other work.
So, customers, sort yourself out. If you want this work done, understand it will be expensive, take a long time, be unpredictable, and you need to pay for it.
One of our techs just fitted a second hand gearbox into a 13 year old car at the customer request (supplied by customer) with no guarantee it would work. It didn't. Customer had agreed hours and rate, then suddenly, when it hasn't worked (because, shock, its a second hand gearbox from another 13 year old car) they don't want to pay as 'it's not worth it'
bearman68 said:
Hi, I'm one of the garage owners who will turn this type of work away.
It's to do with the customers, not the work. Here's why....
a) It's almost impossible to give a price on this type of thing. The other day I was setting the timing on a standard Audi engine, or so I though. Half way through, I needed a specialist setting tool. £70 to hire. When I passed that price on, we had a right old ding dong about the cost of the tool, and about how I hadn't included it. It's just not worth the hassle.
Rest of them are fair points but it not having the required tools pretty standard?It's to do with the customers, not the work. Here's why....
a) It's almost impossible to give a price on this type of thing. The other day I was setting the timing on a standard Audi engine, or so I though. Half way through, I needed a specialist setting tool. £70 to hire. When I passed that price on, we had a right old ding dong about the cost of the tool, and about how I hadn't included it. It's just not worth the hassle.
If it was a known risk from the outset fair enough but I think i'd be also pretty annoyed it a garage said they could do a job, priced that job then halfway through realised they couldn't and wanted money for tool hire.
steveo3002 said:
bit dirty taking on a job then wanting rental money for tools you dont own
Agreed. Plus I'd also be concerned that that the garage didn't have the necessary experience to do the job if they didn't even know what tools were required. As a customer, it's not my problem. Thanks for all the insights, very valuable.
I should mention I've had this issue with multiple garages, sometimes ones I've used for a while (and I've never baulked at paying a bill as long as the work's been done as agreed), although the most recent was somewhere new. But I can see a mix of issues lead into this reluctance.
Ideally I'd like garages to communicate better - tell me it'll be expensive, and that the cost and time isn't necessarily predictable, but call me back if the total cost is going to go more than say 10% over what was originally stated. I could probably do a better job of communicating that I value my car and am willing to pay to get it fixed properly - although I don't want to invite them to take the piss, but if it needs a lot of work, then I won't begrudge paying a fair price for that work being done.
The other thing I appreciate is if a garage doesn't want to do a job, if they can refer me to someone who is willing and able to do it instead - I'd rather not be in the position of talking someone into doing a job on my car they'd rather not be doing. But obviously that depends if they know someone suitable, who isn't going to turn around and say the same thing
I should mention I've had this issue with multiple garages, sometimes ones I've used for a while (and I've never baulked at paying a bill as long as the work's been done as agreed), although the most recent was somewhere new. But I can see a mix of issues lead into this reluctance.
Ideally I'd like garages to communicate better - tell me it'll be expensive, and that the cost and time isn't necessarily predictable, but call me back if the total cost is going to go more than say 10% over what was originally stated. I could probably do a better job of communicating that I value my car and am willing to pay to get it fixed properly - although I don't want to invite them to take the piss, but if it needs a lot of work, then I won't begrudge paying a fair price for that work being done.
The other thing I appreciate is if a garage doesn't want to do a job, if they can refer me to someone who is willing and able to do it instead - I'd rather not be in the position of talking someone into doing a job on my car they'd rather not be doing. But obviously that depends if they know someone suitable, who isn't going to turn around and say the same thing
Some workshops are honest ref the cost to repair versus value.
Many dont want a car taking up space for days on end knowing full well rust repairs can end up much larger time consuming jobs once the grinder and air chisel gets to work.
On an older car with classic status it's sometimes better taking it to a specialist restorer who will know exactly what's involved and will likely carry out a much better repair than a workshop doing mainly quick turnaround servicing/ brakes ect
Many dont want a car taking up space for days on end knowing full well rust repairs can end up much larger time consuming jobs once the grinder and air chisel gets to work.
On an older car with classic status it's sometimes better taking it to a specialist restorer who will know exactly what's involved and will likely carry out a much better repair than a workshop doing mainly quick turnaround servicing/ brakes ect
The Rotrex Kid said:
The other issue is that the £2k of work, underneath a car, is completely hidden. Some people would turn up to collect their car that's had £2k of work and then can't actually see any benefit and have a whinge. I can imagine it's a pain in the ass and leads to some people renegotiating upon payment.
Just had the suspension refreshed on my Elise. New wishbone bearings, ball joints, anti roll bar bushes, drop links, wheel bearings, toe links, handbrake cable, track rod ends, stainless shims, fasteners, etc, and the wishbones etc powder coated. I can see it on my knees with a torch!
Forums | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff