Keyless Entry/Keyless Start
Discussion
I have a car with keyless start, but you still have to push a button on the fob to open the drivers door (BMW I3S). Last night I cam home to a letter from the local police force explaining that there had been an increase in car theft through using these signal booster devices to liberate keyless entry/start vehicles. Their solutions to this was all practical advice, although anybody with keyless entry/start by choice is not going to fit a steering wheel lock...
Now this isn't my first car with potential security flaws and on my previous house I had a substantial driveway pole, which for the money, I think gave a good degree of peace of mind. But it did get me thinking, my current approach is to keep the fob with me upstairs. Before anyone points out violent home invasion and the such there is a bowl full of keys downstairs which gives them access to other cars.
I'd say line of sight the fob is 15m or so away from the car on the 1st floor in a mirrored box. Whilst this is no faraday bag surely this is far enough away for it not to be boosted/an issue?
My real questions I guess are:
1) Is there an optimum range these supposed booster devices work at and say maybe 5m away is enough to make the useless etc?
2) As I still need to press a button on the fob to enter does that mean they still have to break in and can't rely solely on the booster?
3) Is range complexity of system ease to steal manufacturer specific? A Mercedes close to me went walkies I assume in this keyless fashion recently.
3) Does putting them in non faraday containers at least weaken the signal?
Whilst I found the police using the DVLA to proactively support those who might be ignorant to the risk good, I thought it would have been nicer if they had given a little more information. Maybe there is no firm research on the subject or too many variables to do more than they did.
Does anyone have any practical advice or solutions to consider?
Now this isn't my first car with potential security flaws and on my previous house I had a substantial driveway pole, which for the money, I think gave a good degree of peace of mind. But it did get me thinking, my current approach is to keep the fob with me upstairs. Before anyone points out violent home invasion and the such there is a bowl full of keys downstairs which gives them access to other cars.
I'd say line of sight the fob is 15m or so away from the car on the 1st floor in a mirrored box. Whilst this is no faraday bag surely this is far enough away for it not to be boosted/an issue?
My real questions I guess are:
1) Is there an optimum range these supposed booster devices work at and say maybe 5m away is enough to make the useless etc?
2) As I still need to press a button on the fob to enter does that mean they still have to break in and can't rely solely on the booster?
3) Is range complexity of system ease to steal manufacturer specific? A Mercedes close to me went walkies I assume in this keyless fashion recently.
3) Does putting them in non faraday containers at least weaken the signal?
Whilst I found the police using the DVLA to proactively support those who might be ignorant to the risk good, I thought it would have been nicer if they had given a little more information. Maybe there is no firm research on the subject or too many variables to do more than they did.
Does anyone have any practical advice or solutions to consider?
Zumbruk said:
Not a reply, but IME keyless is a poorly implemented solution to a non-existent problem that causes more issues than it solves. I'd much rather not have it.
I don't disagree and thats why I didn't specify comfort entry on the car, but it does come with keyless start and the police felt the need to write to me, now I dare say their information wasn't specific, so we can't blame them for sending the letter.Also I am glad my thoughts were confirmed that no keyless entry less of a problem.
That being said and why I asked the questions and I wasn't very clear, but does distance matter?
I reckon I can safely say if my car had keyless entry and I was a mile away from it with the fob, there is no way anyone could boost that signal to steal the car. So the real question is how close can your keyless entry fob be without it being boosted to be a problem?
I assume, probably wrongly, that those who have had their car stolen in this manner the fob/card/whatever was likely within 10m of the car?
Moonpie21 said:
I reckon I can safely say if my car had keyless entry and I was a mile away from it with the fob, there is no way anyone could boost that signal to steal the car. So the real question is how close can your keyless entry fob be without it being boosted to be a problem?
I assume, probably wrongly, that those who have had their car stolen in this manner the fob/card/whatever was likely within 10m of the car?
For keyless entry to work on the i3 the fob needs to be within a foot of the door handles, any further away and the car does not unlock.I assume, probably wrongly, that those who have had their car stolen in this manner the fob/card/whatever was likely within 10m of the car?
Mammasaid said:
Moonpie21 said:
I have a car with keyless start, but you still have to push a button on the fob to open the drivers door (BMW I3S).
Therefore you don't have keyless entry and all the rest is academic.Sleep easy.
I don't know which models do or don't but I'm sure a number of BMW's now have a key that stops transmitting after a few minutes of not moving. The I3 is a fairly recent and snazzy car so I'd assume it would have this feature.
As above, an aftermarket alarm is the way to go if you do have keyless entry. Clifford is the go-to for my local car security place, he says the Ghosts are comparatively poor quality. I trust him since he's fitting them every single day to all sorts of vehicles from hot hatches, super saloons and work vans. I believe they even have a feature to let them drive away for a few minutes then conk out so the attackers are not near you and have less chance of coming back "asking" how to get the car going.
As above, an aftermarket alarm is the way to go if you do have keyless entry. Clifford is the go-to for my local car security place, he says the Ghosts are comparatively poor quality. I trust him since he's fitting them every single day to all sorts of vehicles from hot hatches, super saloons and work vans. I believe they even have a feature to let them drive away for a few minutes then conk out so the attackers are not near you and have less chance of coming back "asking" how to get the car going.
Real life example of a keyless theft; a friend had a Lexus pinched off his drive, the keys were upstairs in his office, CCTV shows the thieves sat in the street (so approx 20m away and 1 floor down from the keys), and after a minute or two the car unlocked and they made off.
The most bemusing bit was that they'd have got away with it if they hadn't driven like knobs; police stopped them for something relatively minor, nothing stacked up so they did further investigation. The first my friend knew of his missing car was when the police phoned him to tell him they had it.
Obviously keys are now kept in a Faraday cage.
The most bemusing bit was that they'd have got away with it if they hadn't driven like knobs; police stopped them for something relatively minor, nothing stacked up so they did further investigation. The first my friend knew of his missing car was when the police phoned him to tell him they had it.
Obviously keys are now kept in a Faraday cage.
RazerSauber said:
I don't know which models do or don't but I'm sure a number of BMW's now have a key that stops transmitting after a few minutes of not moving. The I3 is a fairly recent and snazzy car so I'd assume it would have this feature.
As above, an aftermarket alarm is the way to go if you do have keyless entry. Clifford is the go-to for my local car security place, he says the Ghosts are comparatively poor quality. I trust him since he's fitting them every single day to all sorts of vehicles from hot hatches, super saloons and work vans. I believe they even have a feature to let them drive away for a few minutes then conk out so the attackers are not near you and have less chance of coming back "asking" how to get the car going.
I think on most vag product, keyless can be turned off completely in the infotainment system,As above, an aftermarket alarm is the way to go if you do have keyless entry. Clifford is the go-to for my local car security place, he says the Ghosts are comparatively poor quality. I trust him since he's fitting them every single day to all sorts of vehicles from hot hatches, super saloons and work vans. I believe they even have a feature to let them drive away for a few minutes then conk out so the attackers are not near you and have less chance of coming back "asking" how to get the car going.
A Faraday pouch is a fiver on amazon. Honestly, I just don't see why you wouldn't get one. There's no need to use a biscuit tin or put your keys in the microwave. Buy pouch, place keys in, job done.
Also, if you have a car known to be a target for thrives, why wouldn't you get a steering lock? A good visual deterrent is often enough for the scumbags to move on to the next car without one.
My car had keyless entry as standard. I think it's pointless as you have to press a button on the door handle to lock and unlock it. Might as well press the fob which is really no extra hassle. It was never necessary along with keyless start.
Also, if you have a car known to be a target for thrives, why wouldn't you get a steering lock? A good visual deterrent is often enough for the scumbags to move on to the next car without one.
My car had keyless entry as standard. I think it's pointless as you have to press a button on the door handle to lock and unlock it. Might as well press the fob which is really no extra hassle. It was never necessary along with keyless start.
Most cars with keyless start but "normal" (i.e. press the button to unlock) entry cannot suffer from relay theft where the signal is boosted. I think it's fairly normal on those for the "Start" button to require both the car to be unlocked and also the key in range before the button is enabled.
It's easy enough to test it out on your own car. Whilst sitting inside with the key, press the "lock" button on the car. Then try pressing the "Start" button. If the engine doesn't start you can't have a problem. Most likely, the only thing which will happen is that you'll set the alarm off.
It's easy enough to test it out on your own car. Whilst sitting inside with the key, press the "lock" button on the car. Then try pressing the "Start" button. If the engine doesn't start you can't have a problem. Most likely, the only thing which will happen is that you'll set the alarm off.
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