RE: Audi set to mount F1 challenge with Sauber
RE: Audi set to mount F1 challenge with Sauber
Wednesday 26th October 2022

Audi set to mount F1 challenge with Sauber

Watch out, Red Bull. The Germans (and Swiss) are coming


One of Formula 1’s worst-kept secrets is now out in the open: Audi will be teaming up with Sauber for its foray into the pinnacle of motorsport in 2026. The German carmaker says it plans to “acquire a stake” in the Swiss F1 squad and that it'll morph the team into its factory outfit, bringing an end to Sauber's privateer years.

Audi has already confirmed that it’ll be building its own Formula 1 engine at its newly-launched facility in Neuburg an der Donau, on the outskirts of Ingolstadt. It even had a little dig at Mercedes, which builds its F1 power plant in Brixworth, claiming it would be the first F1 engine built in Germany for over a decade. The car, however, will be designed and assembled at Sauber’s futuristic facility in Hinwil, Switzerland. We don’t know how much influence Audi will have over the operational side of things, but it did say Sauber would be left in charge of running the F1 team.

Despite trailing at the back of the grid for the past decade or so, albeit with a slight improvement in 2022, Audi clearly has a lot of confidence in Sauber’s capability. The Swiss squad has managed to stick around in F1 for 30 years and scored its one and only win when it was last under a manufacturer’s umbrella with BMW. “Hang on, isn’t Sauber running as Alfa Romeo this year?” Er, yes. But that sponsorship deal comes with a fair bit of cash and Ferrari engines, though is a far cry from the kind of financial and technical support it received under BMW and will do with Audi.

Entering F1 is no mean feat, even if you’re a gigantic carmaker with cash to burn. Not only does Audi now have to manage a cost cap, prohibiting teams (nine of them at least) from spending more than $140m during the 2026 season, but it’ll also have to build a completely new engine from scratch. New regulations set to come in for ‘26 will keep the 1.6-litre V6 used today, only with a bigger battery and the removal of the MGU-H. These engines must run on synthetic fuels, too, which are said to be considerably more environmentally friendly than conventional dino juice. It’ll theoretically even out the playing field, but there’s no denying Audi has its work cut out.

Nevertheless the big question is: who’s going to be driving for them? Like the Mercedes revival in 2010, Audi allegedly wants an all-German driver line-up to kick the project off. Can Mick Schumacher hold on to a seat long enough to become a contender for 2026? Or, perhaps, an Alonso-style F1 return for Vettel? Who knows, but we’ll leave that up to you to battle it out in the comments.

Audi’s Oliver Hoffman, who’s handling the F1 project at the board level, said: “We already know the Sauber Group with its state-of-the-art facility and experienced team from previous collaborations and are convinced that together we will form a strong team.” Previous collaborations, you say? The German giant used Sauber’s wind tunnel to develop its Le Mans prototypes, taking 13 outright victories at the legendary 24-hour race. The two companies have a history, then, and if its Le Mans successes are anything to go by, we could see another German manufacturer dominating in F1 once again. Joy.


Author
Discussion

sidesauce

Original Poster:

2,967 posts

248 months

Wednesday 26th October 2022
quotequote all
Interesting.

Let's see what the Audi boffins come up with engine-wise...

Chris C2

243 posts

79 months

Wednesday 26th October 2022
quotequote all
Eddie Jordan predicted VAG going into F1 many years ago on Top Gear. When VAG are cutting staff/not doing that brilliantly/selling Porsche it seems a bit odd to be ploughing millions into F1. I wonder how things are at Red Bull now that their sponsor's founder and major F1 fan has passed away. Still seems a bit odd that a Chinese manufacturer like Geely hasn't got into F1.

eliot

11,998 posts

284 months

Wednesday 26th October 2022
quotequote all
Chris C2 said:
Eddie Jordan predicted VAG going into F1 many years ago on Top Gear..
Even a stopped clock is correct twice a day

ate one too

2,914 posts

176 months

Wednesday 26th October 2022
quotequote all
sidesauce said:
Interesting.

Let's see what the Audi boffins accountants come up with engine-wise cost-cap-wise... wink

sociopath

3,433 posts

96 months

Wednesday 26th October 2022
quotequote all
sidesauce said:
Interesting.

Let's see what the Audi boffins come up with engine-wise...
Well at least they don't need to work out how to design indicators

anonymous-user

84 months

Wednesday 26th October 2022
quotequote all
who cares about F1 these days its all about the rules not the racing.....unfortunately

vaud

59,769 posts

185 months

Wednesday 26th October 2022
quotequote all
Chris C2 said:
Eddie Jordan predicted VAG going into F1 many years ago on Top Gear. When VAG are cutting staff/not doing that brilliantly/selling Porsche it seems a bit odd to be ploughing millions into F1. I wonder how things are at Red Bull now that their sponsor's founder and major F1 fan has passed away. Still seems a bit odd that a Chinese manufacturer like Geely hasn't got into F1.
VAG's R&D budget is about €13bn. This would be a rounding error.

Hol

9,316 posts

230 months

Wednesday 26th October 2022
quotequote all
It didn’t take long.

I’m already seeing online jokes saying things like ‘the race car won’t need indicators or mirrors’.



Good news for the sport though. I wonder which engine company employees they will buy.

Edited by Hol on Wednesday 26th October 20:38

redroadster

1,886 posts

262 months

Wednesday 26th October 2022
quotequote all
Audi would get more out of rallying than failing in f1.

delta0

2,552 posts

136 months

Wednesday 26th October 2022
quotequote all
Chris C2 said:
Eddie Jordan predicted VAG going into F1 many years ago on Top Gear. When VAG are cutting staff/not doing that brilliantly/selling Porsche it seems a bit odd to be ploughing millions into F1. I wonder how things are at Red Bull now that their sponsor's founder and major F1 fan has passed away. Still seems a bit odd that a Chinese manufacturer like Geely hasn't got into F1.
Audi pulled out of Endurance racing because of budgets, they were spending around $200-250m per year. I don’t see them staying in F1 for very long. They managed about 17 years in Le Mans (winning 13 times), a reasonable length of time helped by the number of wins. I wonder how they will cope with not winning as much especially if they are going to be highly restrictive on driver nationalities etc.

Edited by delta0 on Wednesday 26th October 20:40

rev-erend

21,624 posts

314 months

Wednesday 26th October 2022
quotequote all
sidesauce said:
Interesting.

Let's see what the Audi boffins come up with engine-wise...
Think their engine was designed by Ricardo in endurance racing

InformationSuperHighway

7,583 posts

214 months

Wednesday 26th October 2022
quotequote all
Always a shame to lose a privateer outfit. Sauber have a rich and long history in F1 that would be a shame to lose.

I don't especially like Redbull as a team, but I love they are not a mainstream car manufacturer.

georgeyboy12345

4,644 posts

65 months

Wednesday 26th October 2022
quotequote all
sidesauce said:
Interesting.

Let's see what the Audi boffins come up with engine-wise...
A PD130 TDI

unpc

2,999 posts

243 months

Wednesday 26th October 2022
quotequote all
Nobody yet has made Sauber anything than an also ran. I don't have high expectations that Audi will. They're in the wrong country for a start, lovely as Switzerland is. They won't stay long...

thegreenhell

24,261 posts

249 months

Wednesday 26th October 2022
quotequote all
delta0 said:
I wonder how they will cope with not winning as much especially if they are going to be highly restrictive on driver nationalities etc.
As long as they are close to another car they can content themselves with some aggressive tailgating.

MF35

454 posts

51 months

Wednesday 26th October 2022
quotequote all
They must see a future in F1 though, which is good.

carl_w

10,777 posts

288 months

Wednesday 26th October 2022
quotequote all
unpc said:
Nobody yet has made Sauber anything than an also ran. I don't have high expectations that Audi will. They're in the wrong country for a start, lovely as Switzerland is. They won't stay long...
BMW Sauber 2nd in WCC in 2007 and 3rd in 2008. I guess it depends on your definition of an "also ran".

MissChief

8,001 posts

198 months

Wednesday 26th October 2022
quotequote all
sociopath said:
sidesauce said:
Interesting.

Let's see what the Audi boffins come up with engine-wise...
Well at least they don't need to work out how to design indicators
I believe, until they actually enter, Audi are under no limitations as to what testing they can do. They could easily knock up an R18 with their F1 engine and go pound round Hockenheim and the 'Ring GP circuit for 50,000 miles prior to actually entering.

thegreenhell

24,261 posts

249 months

Wednesday 26th October 2022
quotequote all
MissChief said:
I believe, until they actually enter, Audi are under no limitations as to what testing they can do. They could easily knock up an R18 with their F1 engine and go pound round Hockenheim and the 'Ring GP circuit for 50,000 miles prior to actually entering.
Not quite. Entries for 2026, the first year of the new PU regs, close this month, so they have officially entered F1 even though they won't actually enter a race as a manufacturer until 2026. They will be now be bound by the new PU cost cap and testing rules, although the limits for new entrants are slightly higher than for pre-existing entrants. If they wanted to do as you suggested then they would have needed to already be doing that before now.

Interestingly, Red Bull will also be able to make use of those higher new-entrant limits as their current engine is still the Honda and their own PU for 2026 will be their first as a manufacturer in their own right.

ArnageWRC

2,342 posts

189 months

Wednesday 26th October 2022
quotequote all
redroadster said:
Audi would get more out of rallying than failing in f1.
I only wish that were true.....Rallying isn't really offering much for manufacturers who are elsewhere in global motorsport.

Personally, they should have stayed in Sportscars, that is surely a better fit for them. I'd love to know what Dr Ullrich thinks....