Welsh 20mph limit could save £100m a year

[camel_landy]

Apparently, the new 20mph speed limit could save £100m a year.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-63542427

/DISCUSS=ON

M

[ITP]

And it’s cr@p like this why people don’t ever believe ‘official’ statistics. Write a report just to prove what we are doing is justified.
Can we fine the report authors the £100m when there are no savings?

[wag2]

They made that saving with trains in Yorkshire

[brman]

According to that article a reduction in 19 deaths will save £37M in a year.
So each death is costing us close to £2M.
I would love to know what that figure is made up from. I am guessing they have factored in a loss of GDP etc but, given the GDP per capital is around £25k in wales, assuming the deaths are of average age I make that no more than £600k lost in GDP for the rest of their lives. So I still have to find £1.4M.....

[mac96]

It is irrelevant whether the saving is £1 or £100m when they do not seem to have calculated the cost of wasted time with its associated economic value (both for business and personal journeys), plus the increased fuel costs and the increased pollution caused by vehicles travelling inefficiently slowly.

And I find it surprising that minor accidents reduce- it seems counter-intuitive considering the effect of slowing traffic on pedestrian behaviour. Of course, I may be entirely wrong on this!

I am not actually altogether against this limit reduction- I would prefer the existing default urban 30mph limits, but current system of random often poorly signed stretches of 20 mph makes compliance very difficult. But I would like so see balanced evidence of the economic benefit, not a report written to support a preconceived idea.

The survey is laughable. " Would you prefer to see the speed limit outside your house reduced" is a question to which the selfish will always say 'yes please' without thinking that it really means 'Would you like to have to drive at no more than 20mph everywhere' which is the actual question to which their answer is being attached.

[Type R Tom]

brman said:

According to that article a reduction in 19 deaths will save £37M in a year.
So each death is costing us close to £2M.
I would love to know what that figure is made up from. I am guessing they have factored in a loss of GDP etc but, given the GDP per capital is around £25k in wales, assuming the deaths are of average age I make that no more than £600k lost in GDP for the rest of their lives. So I still have to find £1.4M.....

I think when you start to add emergency services, investigations and road closures impacting people etc. impact on families etc. it won't take long to get to the figure.

It's how traditional road safety schemes worked. If you could predict that a scheme could save x number of accidents per year by investing £x amount on a new scheme then a first-year rate of return could be calculated and the scheme would "pay for itself" in a certain amount of time.

[Biggy Stardust]

Could that £100m be invested into men with red flags? Think of the potential future savings plus employment prospects.

[Pica-Pica]

brman said:

According to that article a reduction in 19 deaths will save £37M in a year.
So each death is costing us close to £2M.
I would love to know what that figure is made up from. I am guessing they have factored in a loss of GDP etc but, given the GDP per capital is around £25k in wales, assuming the deaths are of average age I make that no more than £600k lost in GDP for the rest of their lives. So I still have to find £1.4M.....

Many sources quote that each road death costs about £2m. It’s possible to search for these sources, I’ll leave the searching for those interested.

[GranpaB]

And driving slower does save money of sorts.

I can get about 55mpg on a cruise at 60, as opposed to driving at 70 and achieving 45-48mpg.

[anonymous-user]

mac96 said:

the cost of wasted time with its associated economic value (both for business and personal journeys), plus the increased fuel costs and the increased pollution caused by vehicles travelling inefficiently slowly.

This is a joke right

[Harji]

brman said:

According to that article a reduction in 19 deaths will save £37M in a year.
So each death is costing us close to £2M.
I would love to know what that figure is made up from. I am guessing they have factored in a loss of GDP etc but, given the GDP per capital is around £25k in wales, assuming the deaths are of average age I make that no more than £600k lost in GDP for the rest of their lives. So I still have to find £1.4M.....

When I did a BikeSafe course a few years ago, one of the reasons the Police and TfL were doing them is that an accident can cost up to 1 Million quid, due to personnel , investigation costs, road closures , additional safety vehicles and clearence plus other stuff.

[CraigyMc]

ilikepeas said:

mac96 said:

the cost of wasted time with its associated economic value (both for business and personal journeys), plus the increased fuel costs and the increased pollution caused by vehicles travelling inefficiently slowly.

This is a joke right

Time literally is money.
20mph is less efficient for ICE vehicles, it uses more fuel, hence increased pollution.

Why are either of those funny to you?

[Skyedriver]

CraigyMc said:

ilikepeas said:

mac96 said:

the cost of wasted time with its associated economic value (both for business and personal journeys), plus the increased fuel costs and the increased pollution caused by vehicles travelling inefficiently slowly.

This is a joke right

Time literally is money.
20mph is less efficient for ICE vehicles, it uses more fuel, hence increased pollution.

Why are either of those funny to you?

Most villages and towns in Scotland have turned over to a 20mph limit.
Probably safer for the pedestrian who wanders out between badly parked cars. the child who runs out after a ball etc and yes the saving in reduced need for the services is huge.
But the running a car through these villages at 20mph in 2nd gear used more fuel and causes more pollution than the same car at 30mph in 3rd gear.
Guess we won't have to worry about that as we all get either taxed off the road or forced onto electric vehicles where the pollution is created at a power station.

[Gweeds]

So fewer people will be dead at the end of each year.

Hard to see that’s a bad thing. If you need to get there sooner just leave earlier.

[Scrump]

The Welsh 20mph limit is being discussed here:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...