RE: 2023 Honda Civic Type R | UK Review
RE: 2023 Honda Civic Type R | UK Review
Thursday 12th January 2023

2023 Honda Civic Type R | UK Review

The first chance to sample the FL5 on home turf suggests it's better than its predecessor - but not by much


Three things interested me most regarding the latest Honda Civic Type R – the FL5. Now, I’m told there are many changes, but most seem to sit in a bracket that could be termed minutiae – small percentage gains here and there. The changes that pricked up my ears were all more substantial. First is the driving modes. The FL5 has an individual driving mode. Why is that so important? Because the last Type R (FK8) was, in my opinion, about as perfect as a high-powered, front-driven hot hatch could be, apart from the fixed modes. For example, the lightest steering setting was often the best for road use, but you couldn’t have that in the racier modes that added the required aggression elsewhere. It wasn't ruinous, it just sparked a rueful sigh.

The second thing is the new car’s looks. When I went on the launch of the FK8 in 2017, I said right from the off that it was the best hot hatch on sale. I think I was proved right, judging by the numerous test wins and awards it racked up in the following years. But in that time – try as I might and no matter how hard I squinted – the looks never grew on me. The FK8 is like the Elephant Man: beautiful on the inside, repulsive on the outside. I know some people say the FL5 is bland, and I can understand that point of view, but as far as I’m concerned, bland trumps beastly.

The third thing is the price. My, my, the FL5 is expensive, especially considering what’s underneath that slinkier skin. It isn’t exactly revolutionary. Sure, it has a new, stiffer chassis, but mechanically it’s fundamentally unchanged – so how can it cost £46,995? The FK8 was around £30,000 when it was launched. Now, I am not here to justify Honda’s pricing strategy, and I do think it’s a real shame that the Type R is now beyond the reach of many of its traditional buyers, but I will say this: the FL5 is roughly the same price as a Mercedes-AMG A35. I’ve driven the A35 and it’s as mediocre as mild cheddar. If the FL5 simply matches the FK8’s all-round performance, it would blow the A35 into the weeds. Coming from that point of view, then, maybe there’s some rationale for its pricing?

The lead-up to this UK drive has been so protracted that if you haven’t gleaned what’s new about the FL5 by now, either you don’t care or have been living under a rock. So, I’ll spare you an equally protracted technical deep-dive and simply run you through the highlights. The new, stiffer chassis is wider and longer ­– that's both overall and between the wheels. The tracks are broader, too, and because the car sits lower to the ground the centre of gravity has been improved. Also, with the FL5 being bigger, it won’t surprise you to learn that it’s heavier, too, but thanks to careful weight-saving, including a resin tailgate, only by 24kg over the previous GT. That's nothing really. 

The aero has been tweaked, not just to reduce lift at speed but also to feed more air through the brakes so they stay with you longer on track. Stiffer mountings for the front suspension, more camber and improved steering response sharpen up the handling, and the drivetrain has been sharpened up, too. The carryover K20C1 VTEC engine breathes better on the induction and exhaust sides, has a more responsive turbo and retuned software. Peak power is up by 9hp and torque boosted by 15lb ft, with a flatter torque curve as well. Lastly, the six-speed gearbox (already one of the standout features of the FK8) has been tinkered with to make the shifts even slicker and more defined, with sharper rev-matching on all downshifts. That's including second to first, which didn't have rev-matching before.

So there you go, that’s the new FL5 in a nutshell. Do the incremental changes deliver monumental results on road and track? No, of course not. If the changes are incremental, the results are unlikely to be significantly different. This became obvious after a few laps in the FK8 around Thruxton before swapping to the FL5. Now, Thruxton isn’t a challenge you take lightly. It’s the fastest circuit in the UK, doesn’t have a lot of run off and it’s so flat and featureless that most of the time you can’t see what’s coming. And typically, it was wet and murky, and in the gloom I could see even less, apart from a colossal shunt in my mind’s eye if I got it wrong. Nevertheless, there are few cars I’d rather brave these conditions in than an FK8.

Despite having 320hp to shove through two front wheels on a very slippery surface, it was surprisingly easy to get the power down without too much drama. The engine pulls hard through all the gears, so it still feels properly rapid, and with tenacious grip, supreme body control and precise steering, which tells you all you need to know, there were no heart-in-mouth moments. It’s just a brilliant machine, the FK8. The only slightly alarming aspect was its twitchiness at the rear into slower corners. You want some rotation, but the line between some and a bundle was a fine one.

After a few laps, I swapped into the FL5. When you have these on-track experiences, they’re normally rushed and it’s hard to take in everything about a new car because you’re acquainting yourself – or, in this case reacquainting yourself – with the track. Horrendous conditions don’t help the situation, and I never like having an instructor in the car with me because, well, I always feel this overwhelming responsibility not to kill him. With all that in mind, I'd say the new car felt broadly similar.

That goes for most aspects: driving position, engine, even body control and outright grip. Yes, the FL5 has slightly larger tyres (265/30/R19 Michelin Pilot Sport 4S), but the low-grip surface negated much of their advantage and with broadly the same performance, the traction and cornering speeds were, I’d say, much the same. They so clearly share the same DNA, with the FL5 exhibiting the same traits that the FK8 had done, including that looseness at the rear on a trailing brake. But with a few more laps and a better understanding of the conditions, this time I remembered to play with the driving modes.

Both cars were in R+ when I got in them, and I’d left the FK8 in that mode throughout. But by delving into the new, Individual mode, I configured the FL5 with aggression in most of its settings bar the suspension, which I put in Sport. That made a difference. Having that little bit more roll didn’t just settle the car through the slow stuff, but calmed it down through the quicker stuff, too. This meant I had even more confidence. I could push harder, carry more speed, but also hit my lines more consistently. Without doubt, then, the FL5 is an awesome track car, but had I remembered to soften the FK8 off, I am sure that the results would’ve been similar. On a dry track the new car’s star may have risen higher, but in the gloom of Thruxton both shone with much the same intensity.

It was on the road – still wet, but having more time to ponder things – where the differences became apparent. Admittedly, I didn’t drive the FK8 away from the circuit, but knowing it well, the first thing that struck me was the FL5’s improved cruising manners. It’s not uber refined, because over really rough surfaces there’s still plenty of roar from those wider tyres. Still, it’s a big improvement over its predecessor, and on smoother asphalt I doubt it’s much nosier than a Golf R. It feels better made than a Golf R, though, with this generation of Civic boating vastly better materials and a generally solid, classy feel. Just shutting the door elicits a well-damped thud rather than the FK8's tinny twang, and I love the art deco grille that stretches the width of the dashboard. Even the joysticks that sprout from it – to direct the airflow from the vents – have a substantial tactility that Mercedes would do well to replicate in its £147,000 SL 55.

The instruments are better and now configurable, too. The still-digital but standard-looking round dials in Comfort mode are simple to read, while the race-style layout of R+ delivers all the crucial information with even greater clarity. Also, the row of change-up lights across the top of the display are dead easy to pick out peripherally as you’re charging headlong through the gears. Which, by the way, are sublime. Here’s a challenge: is there a new car on sale with a better manual selector than this? I can’t think of one. The way the lever almost sucks itself into the next gear with the lightest of touches – without feeling imprecise or losing any mechanical sweetness that tells you exactly when the cogs have meshed – is just remarkable. Better than the old car's? Hmm, possibly, but after its facelift, the FK8's 'box was improved markedly so it's not far off. 

Also remarkable is the supple ride, at least when you consider how this car works so sublimely on track. Yet that’s the point: compliance is key. Generally speaking, whether you’re hard-charging on a challenging B road or leaping across painted kerbs, you need some give, and that’s what the Type R’s Comfort setting gives you. At their softest, the dampers swallow the harshness of truly awful surfaces like a cartoon character swallowing a comedy bomb. When the surface allows, you have the capacity to ramp up the stiffness to clamp down on lean, but for your typical UK roads, the basic setting works brilliantly.

Again, this is the beauty of that Individual mode. It gives the FL5 a much wider bandwidth of ability because you can pick and choose every element. That said, having yearned for steering that can be run in a lighter setting, I ended up with Sport – the mid setting – as my preferred option for the road. It just gave me that extra degree of on-centre trustworthiness, without feeling laughably weighty as you add a more substantial lock on. Here’s noticeable big change, though. The FL5 turns in with such venom that it reminded me of the 992 GT3. It’s so direct that the steering inputs chime perfectly with the rate of turn. I mean, the old car was good in this respect, but not this good.

There’s one other area where the two generations differ noticeably, and that’s the engine. Not on ultimate pace, because while I am sure the FL5 will prove itself quicker against the stop watch, on a wet day there’s little to choose between them. It’s the delivery. The FL5 starts boosting at 2,000rpm, which is when the old car’s turbo switched on, but instead of building to a frenzy like the FK8, the FL5 is far more linear. It never explodes like the old car in the mid-range, but keeps pulling consistently. Technically, it’s better to have that flatter torque curve because it makes the delivery more predictable, but in terms of theatre, I did miss the crescendo.

But other than that one, debatable and definitely tiny glitch, the new Type R is an utter delight. Every time a new version comes along, I worry that Honda will have ruined it. Generally speaking, though, that’s not been the case. Over its 25-year history, the only fly in the Type R ointment was the maligned FN2. Yet even that’s starting to be considered more favourably as time passes – as Matt B discussed in his Type R Origins story last year. The FL5 is another seamless transition up the ladder of success.

We still need a dry day and a benchmark rival to truly appreciate what it has to offer, but I don’t think that's likely to be the Mercedes A35. Knowing what I know already, I can safely say that test would be a drubbing. And that brings me back to the price. There’s every chance that in the dry the FL5 will pull clear of its predecessor more obviously, but what this launch taught me – as much as anything about the new car – is how good the FK8 is. The simple fact that Honda hasn’t made a root and branch change with its replacement tells you something: either Honda’s engineers knew they didn’t need to 'go big' or perhaps that they just couldn’t. The last one’s brilliance left little headroom for improvement – well, other than interior quality and infotainment.

So here’s the thing. If you can afford the FL5 – and actually get allocated one – then buy it, because it’s almost certainly the best hot hatch on sale. And if you can’t stretch to it, don’t worry. Because the best hot hatch since 2017 is still superior to almost everything else today. They start from around £25,000 used, and that’s just about enough to balance out its awful looks, if you squint hard enough. 


SPECIFICATION | HONDA CIVIC TYPE R GT (FL5)

Engine: 1,996cc, four-cylinder turbo
Transmission: six-speed manual, front-wheel drive
Power (hp): 329 @ 6,500rpm
Torque (lb ft): 310 @ 2,200-4,000rpm
0-62mph: 5.4sec
Top speed: 170mph
Weight: 1,429kg
MPG: 34.4
CO2: 186g/km
Price: £46,995

Author
Discussion

GreatScott2016

Original Poster:

2,556 posts

118 months

Thursday 12th January 2023
quotequote all
Dump the silly triple pipes and spoiler and knock off £10k and I might just be tempted. Does make its predecessor look positively good value wink

leef44

5,201 posts

183 months

Thursday 12th January 2023
quotequote all
It looks like the Type R is the benchmark in the hot hatch category like the 911 in the sports car category. It's the best at its game and now the evolution is just to tweak it slightly, make it slightly bigger, slightly more mature and, comes with that, is slightly more weight.

I'm surprised it can ride with suppleness on our roads given the slithers of tyres and the stiffer chassis so the more impressive this is.

I didn't get on with the looks of the FK8 so I am a supporter of the more bland looks of this FL5.

I had an EP3, partly because it was the one I could afford at £16k at the time compared to the Golf at closer to £22k. Now, it's pushed itself at the top of its price bracket but I guess it's fair game since it is top of its class. But it's still frightening to see that gap from the original starting price of an FK8.

Wren-went

1,064 posts

68 months

Thursday 12th January 2023
quotequote all
Looks better than its predecessor but £47,000 for a Fast Honda, each to their own if I was paying that for a car it would be an 18 months old with under 20,000 miles BMW M2 .or a Golf R I'm sure you could get a brand new 1 for Roughly the same

Days of Honda's being good well priced cars have gone , just like their UK production maybe why it's so expensive you have to pay for the Civic Making it's way from the State's.

I'm another who doesn't like the predecessor and this generations treble exhaust,

forzaminardi

2,298 posts

217 months

Thursday 12th January 2023
quotequote all
Delete the rear wing and that's a fine looking car imo.
I don't think the price is a problem when you look at the competition. As the review says, like for like it's better than it's direct price competitors in driving terms - and probably in terms of reliability and running costs too. Unlike the Golf R and the AMG A classes, it'll never be bought by people who aren't that fussed by handling or whatever but simply want an impressive brand or a car that's perceived as 'fast and fancy'. It's a niche product, those who want one will pay to get it, so Honda may as well milk them - cynical though it may be.

'Fast and Fancy' could be a new movie franchise.

whp1983

1,396 posts

169 months

Thursday 12th January 2023
quotequote all
Looks are subjective but I disagree the new one looks better, safer, tailored for yank market yes but not better.

FK8 had a cohesive bonkers Japanese thing going on…. In a sea of golf’s and SUVs I liked it and thought it was interesting and worked well.

In any case immense cars, good stuff Honda.

Jon_S_Rally

4,489 posts

118 months

Thursday 12th January 2023
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Like everything about this apart from the price and the low availability. I know all hot hatches have got more expensive, but it's a real shame to see such a hike for this, especially when the finance deals on these have always been pretty nasty. It's just another nail in the coffin for the segment I think. The days of the affordable hot hatch are behind us.

JAMSXR

1,845 posts

77 months

Thursday 12th January 2023
quotequote all
I have a deposit down, went to see the first dealer allocation yesterday, it definitely wet the juices. Fingers crossed I’ll get hold of one.

Edited by JAMSXR on Thursday 12th January 06:17

fantheman80

2,664 posts

79 months

Thursday 12th January 2023
quotequote all
Ironic that there was no limit to the Fk8 but the looks put many off....huge demand for this and they are reportedly only doing 196 this year and 400-600 in total for whole 3 year cycle...

I pulled my deposit as my current circumstances meant £10k down and £499 a month was a bit strong for pretty much the same experience as my 8 which I then treated with a leather shammy, flowers and promised not to look at other girls again

One fl5 is being flipped already at 60K on AT, expect to see more

aston addict

475 posts

188 months

Thursday 12th January 2023
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47k for a dumpy hatchback with a daft rear wing? It’s a Honda with naff red seats. Crazy.

covmutley

3,376 posts

220 months

Thursday 12th January 2023
quotequote all
Not interested. Hot hatchbacks are supposed to be affordable, and this is miles off that.

Though I suspect it will be a good buy and hold its value very well.

anonymous-user

84 months

Thursday 12th January 2023
quotequote all
I am trying hard to like this ...but i dont

Triple pipes look poor and that rear wing looks so flimsy.

It also reminds me of an old Rover 3500....which i am not sure is good..

£47k in todays prices feels about right but as others have said you are passing up some damn fine vehicles in the second hand market !

Its a HARD NO from me.

spookly

4,394 posts

125 months

Thursday 12th January 2023
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Looks a lot nicer than it's predecessor, but not at that price.

GianiCakes

707 posts

103 months

Thursday 12th January 2023
quotequote all
I think it looks good. And I aspire to having “improved cursing manners” too

jonosterman

128 posts

122 months

Thursday 12th January 2023
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I know this takes us into the 'No True Yorkshireman' argument, but can this really reasonably still be considered a hot hatch?

It's £47k, but more importantly (IMHO obviously) it's now 4.6m long which puts it in the company of things like BMW 4GCs and Audi A5 Sportbacks. FFS it's basically got the same dimensions as an IS-F which you'd never describe as 'Hot Hatch' like in size.

It may be an amazingly competent car and I'm sure it's fantastic on track or on a wide, flowing A-road, but barreling down a country road I still think I'd be having a lot more fun in something with a lot less power, width, weight and length, and I can't help but wish they'd put all their considerable talent into developing something just a little bit smaller (though I understand their hands were tied by the size of the FL5 in the first place).

Dombilano

1,458 posts

85 months

Thursday 12th January 2023
quotequote all
Even taking inflation into account, its £5k above where it should be. Dumping £50k with a few extras on a civic Type R feels wrong, especially knowing its a very mild evolution of the FK8 mechanically

Truckosaurus

13,280 posts

314 months

Thursday 12th January 2023
quotequote all
I'd be much more excited if they put the 1.5 turbo into the Jazz.

(The 1.5 turbo Civic seems to be a bit of a bargain for a lukewarm hot hatch, but as it is not the top-of-the-range then no-one notices it)

Baileyk

322 posts

94 months

Thursday 12th January 2023
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Even though i don't own a Honda or consider myself a fanboy, i have followed the news / reviews regarding the FK8 and the FL5. Given that the FK8 and FL5 are near identical, surely you're better off buying the FK8 at 1/2 the price and just accepting the looks?

Nimerino

302 posts

143 months

Thursday 12th January 2023
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The looks are subjective (I hated it at first and now love it) and the driving experience is improved, though apparently only marginally. What I find interesting is how there’s now a concerted effort to normalise the absurd price increase across the media. If Pisto heads and others aren’t pushing back, is £50k now the new normal for Golf-class hot hatches?

Black S2K

1,925 posts

279 months

Thursday 12th January 2023
quotequote all
Great read.

Did you mean 'cruising manners' or does it have a Don Logan setting you failed to mention?

If so, perhaps this autonomous driving stuff is useful after all...

Nevertheless, this car could tempt me away from an AWD slushbox, that's for sure.

Escort3500

13,534 posts

175 months

Thursday 12th January 2023
quotequote all
GreatScott2016 said:
Dump the silly triple pipes and spoiler and knock off £10k and I might just be tempted. Does make its predecessor look positively good value wink
Exactly my thoughts. It’d look quite refined without the Halfords tat.

Added bonus is that the design’s nothing like the bloody awful FK8