Wednesday 1st February 2023

Audi S4 (B6) | Spotted

Crave a V8, a manual gearbox and not much attention? It can still be yours for less than £6,500...

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We enjoy the simple pleasures on PH. It’s impossible not to be stunned by the various abilities of a 911 Turbo or a Rolls-Royce Phantom, but there’s really little beating the traditional charm of a V8 and a manual gearbox. Doesn’t matter how it’s housed, we’re interested: could be a Range Rover, could be a BMW M5. There’s just something irresistible about the engine and gearbox combination, even if we’d be the first to admit that some are most certainly better than others.

Trouble is, the whole market is starting to see the appeal in manual V8s; it’s hardly like there’s going to be many more, which, along with everything else right now, is pushing prices up. Even the contemporary heroes, cars like the Mustang Mach 1, can’t be bought for less than £50k (though less special ‘Stangs are of course a bit less). We’ll spare you the pain of looking at E39 M5 prices and just say they’re a lot. Even the Rover-engined TVRs are slowly but surely creeping up.

Now, obviously, nobody is going to suggest that a 2004 Audi S4 is an alternative to a TVR. It’s not even the same calibre of sports saloon as the M5. But where those cars might be tens of thousands of pounds, this old Audi V8 - with a manual gearbox, fewer than 90,000 miles and a recent service - is £6,450. Not a huge amount of money for a car at any time, and especially not at the moment. As far as we can see, it’s the most affordable way into a manual V8 currently on PH. A couple of Land Rovers aside, in fact, this era of S4 is the only way into a V8 manual for less than £10k right now, all the way up until a Maserati 3200GT comes into reach at about £12,000…

It's hardly like this S4 is some tired example, either. It’s being sold with a comprehensive service history, five owners isn’t a lot for a car almost 20 years old, there’s at least one Michelin tyre to be seen and the Dolphin Grey paint has retained its lustre. The interior looks great, too, leather Recaros still in really good shape and the stoic-yet-stylish dash as smart now as 2004. What a set of dials, too - just watching the tacho spin around to 7,000rpm would be half the pleasure.

Though this V8 went on to become more exciting in later A4s and the R8, it was actually first introduced for this S4. The BBK 4.2 didn’t get off to a bad start, either, 4,163cc producing 344hp at 7,000rpm and 302lb ft at 3,500rpm. Brutal enough treatment could get it to 62mph in a little more than five seconds back in the day. The engine remains quite something to look at, too, crammed in behind the lights like ­Vin Diesel on a packed tube - there’s just so much muscle in so little space.

The nose-heavy handling caused by having a huge engine in a small saloon is ultimately what meant the S4 wasn’t as loved as the RS that followed, isn’t the most coveted modern classic now, and is unlikely to be worth loads in 10 years’ time. Hardly going to be cheap running, either. The flip side is that, right now, the B6 boasts a fantastic V8 engine, a manual gearbox and handsome, chiselled good looks for £6,000 - sometimes the appeal doesn’t have to be any more complicated than that.

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SPECIFICATION | AUDI S4 (B6)

Engine: 4,163cc, V8
Transmission: 6-speed manual, four-wheel drive
Power (hp): 344@7,000rpm
Torque (lb ft): 302@3,500rpm
MPG: 21.2
CO2: 321g/km
Year registered: 2004
Recorded mileage: 88,000
Price new: c. £40k
Yours for: £6,450

See the original advert here

[el romeral]

That looks fantastic especialy in that colour. I suspect this will be sold very soon.

[Water Fairy]

Ok I'm gonna say it....... An avant would have been better

And for ultimate Q car appeal ditch the S4 badge on the rear

[McGee_22]

Timing chain

[Cambs_Stuart]

McGee_22 said:

Timing chain

That's what puts me off these S4s. I'd guess it's an engine out job. £2.5 to 3k?

[McGee_22]

Cambs_Stuart said:

McGee_22 said:

Timing chain

That's what puts me off these S4s. I'd guess it's an engine out job. £2.5 to 3k?

And the rest - it's exhaust, gearbox, axles and everything out - then engine out - some bright spark at Audi decided to do away with the convention of having the timing chain/belt at the front of the engine where its accessible, and chose to place it on the back of the engine instead. A brief google reveals just the bits to do the job three years ago were c£1400 so throw 20% on top of that and three times as much for the labour?

All for plastic guides which in the almost identical architecture of the RS engine they used metal...

Edited by McGee_22 on Wednesday 1st February 07:34

[big_rob_sydney]

Too many things to go wrong in a cheap v8. Borkage ahoy.

[GreatScott2016]

Cambs_Stuart said:

McGee_22 said:

Timing chain

That's what puts me off these S4s. I'd guess it's an engine out job. £2.5 to 3k?

Not really into these, so I wasn't aware of this issue. That aside, you can't ignore that intoxicating noise

[Krikkit]

What did they change for the RS4 to fix the handling? I presume it was some simple suspension work, and hence could be done to the S4.

[spreadsheet monkey]

GreatScott2016 said:

Cambs_Stuart said:

McGee_22 said:

Timing chain

That's what puts me off these S4s. I'd guess it's an engine out job. £2.5 to 3k?

Not really into these, so I wasn't aware of this issue. That aside, you can't ignore that intoxicating noise

YouTube video here from 2021 showing a B7 S4 timing chain replacement at an independent VW/Audi specialist. £2680 + VAT (at 2021 prices).

“It is possible to get this done in a week, but usually it takes 2-4 weeks depending on what else needs doing”

https://youtu.be/W_nQ1gk3c_4

[richinlondon]

el romeral said:

That looks fantastic especialy in that colour. I suspect this will be sold very soon.

Grey? What an unusual colour...

[British Beef]

McGee_22 said:

Cambs_Stuart said:

McGee_22 said:

Timing chain

That's what puts me off these S4s. I'd guess it's an engine out job. £2.5 to 3k?

And the rest - it's exhaust, gearbox, axles and everything out - then engine out - some bright spark at Audi decided to do away with the convention of having the timing chain/belt at the front of the engine where its accessible, and chose to place it on the back of the engine instead. A brief google reveals just the bits to do the job three years ago were c£1400 so throw 20% on top of that and three times as much for the labour?

All for plastic guides which in the almost identical architecture of the RS engine they used metal...

Edited by McGee_22 on Wednesday 1st February 07:34

Good information, and definately enough to put me off one of these.
I had read about the weakness of plastic chain guides, but had no idea they were such a project to change out. Sounds more like Leyland engineering than Audis finest!!!!

[MisanoPayments]

Wasn't this same car in a recent Pistonheads article on "V8s under £10K" or something? Thought I was clicking on an older article when I saw the car.

Father has a manual B7 in black with the carmine red leather - on the rare occasion I'm in it now, it's really nice to hear the V8 noise, even when cruising around the 20 mph areas, ie everywhere now I suppose!

[Wab1974uk]

Always liked S4's until they made them Diesel only.

[_Bozzy]

McGee_22 said:

And the rest - it's exhaust, gearbox, axles and everything out - then engine out - some bright spark at Audi decided to do away with the convention of having the timing chain/belt at the front of the engine where its accessible, and chose to place it on the back of the engine instead. A brief google reveals just the bits to do the job three years ago were c£1400 so throw 20% on top of that and three times as much for the labour?

All for plastic guides which in the almost identical architecture of the RS engine they used metal...

Edited by McGee_22 on Wednesday 1st February 07:34

That gives me brain ache just looking at it!

[Howard-]

McGee_22 said:

Cambs_Stuart said:

McGee_22 said:

Timing chain

That's what puts me off these S4s. I'd guess it's an engine out job. £2.5 to 3k?

And the rest - it's exhaust, gearbox, axles and everything out - then engine out - some bright spark at Audi decided to do away with the convention of having the timing chain/belt at the front of the engine where its accessible, and chose to place it on the back of the engine instead. A brief google reveals just the bits to do the job three years ago were c£1400 so throw 20% on top of that and three times as much for the labour?

All for plastic guides which in the almost identical architecture of the RS engine they used metal...

Edited by McGee_22 on Wednesday 1st February 07:34

Why would they even think about designing it like that? What engineering benefit is there?

[Armagreggon]

What about the E39 & E34 BMW 540i V8? They aren't very common, but you can get manual ones for less than £10k. And the timing chain guides are on the front of the engine

[AmyRichardson]

Krikkit said:

What did they change for the RS4 to fix the handling? I presume it was some simple suspension work, and hence could be done to the S4.

"Fix" is relative; the B6 suffered the media response as every other RS:

- Release date: "Sploosh! All the old fast Audi stereotypes squashed!"
- Group tests over the following months: "So, those stereotypes..."

(Albeit the B6, of all RS4s, seems to have suffered this fate least.)

[TyrannosauRoss Lex]

Howard- said:

McGee_22 said:

Cambs_Stuart said:

McGee_22 said:

Timing chain

That's what puts me off these S4s. I'd guess it's an engine out job. £2.5 to 3k?

And the rest - it's exhaust, gearbox, axles and everything out - then engine out - some bright spark at Audi decided to do away with the convention of having the timing chain/belt at the front of the engine where its accessible, and chose to place it on the back of the engine instead. A brief google reveals just the bits to do the job three years ago were c£1400 so throw 20% on top of that and three times as much for the labour?

All for plastic guides which in the almost identical architecture of the RS engine they used metal...

Edited by McGee_22 on Wednesday 1st February 07:34

Why would they even think about designing it like that? What engineering benefit is there?

I'm not sure if there's engineering benefit, but there could be benefit in helping your service team make their Christmas bonuses.

[Peppka]

McGee_22 said:

Cambs_Stuart said:

McGee_22 said:

Timing chain

That's what puts me off these S4s. I'd guess it's an engine out job. £2.5 to 3k?

And the rest - it's exhaust, gearbox, axles and everything out - then engine out - some bright spark at Audi decided to do away with the convention of having the timing chain/belt at the front of the engine where its accessible, and chose to place it on the back of the engine instead. A brief google reveals just the bits to do the job three years ago were c£1400 so throw 20% on top of that and three times as much for the labour?

All for plastic guides which in the almost identical architecture of the RS engine they used metal...

Edited by McGee_22 on Wednesday 1st February 07:34

Makes the Alfa Romeo Busso V6 timing belt look positively simple even if you do replace it every 30,000 or 4 years as Alfa Workshop recommend for far less money and with engine in situ.

[Thefastestindian]

The engineering benefit of the timing chains being where they are will likely be purely packaging. A lot of the time its because of restrictions like having to reuse parts from other engines that already exist in the line up, to keep the bill of materials cost to a budget. It can mean you can't just place components where you want them to be. Can be things like having to reuse the cylinder heads from a 4cyl that when mounted in a fwd car makes sense for servicing, or location of an oil pump and how you connect drive to it now that the engine is turned 90degs etc.

Servicability is rarely the highest priority on a vehicle like this - its not a utility vehicle. So long as it 'can' be serviced somehow, that counts.