Smart Motorway M6 Incident

[tobytronicstereophonic]

A couple of quick tips to help get you into the safe layby on Smart Motorway sections:
The starter motor will power your car for about 100yds in 1st from a stand still, or 2nd while still coasting.
A lot of modern cars won't allow this, but we don't drive those.

I came across an elderly man trying to push his new Vauxhall out of the traffic he'd broken down in. Nobody was helping him, but when I stopped, another car driver helped. It would not engage any gear. I kept the engine idling and pushed the gear lever as though trying to engage 1st. The friction on the synchro hub moved the car quite well. So well, I bet I could have driven the car home for him if the road was flat.

I realise you all know the above, but when I asked my nieces, neither realised they could get a car out of danger with the starter motor. Not good for your starter motor, but being stranded in the inside lane at 2am isn't good for your sanity either.

The broken down Vauxhall driver said he'd been trying to push it for about ten minutes. In rural NE Scotland, where I spent six years, if I ever broke down, I absolutely knew that the next car would stop and offer assistance. Every time. Why did I ever leave...

[dhutch]

Also, unless you're in an area where you can't, flyover and underpasses etc, just get out and get behind the Armco, slightly upstream of the car.

[MattsCar]

Slightly off topic, and I don't know if this story has been diluted by Chinese whispers, but an alarm system company in the 90s were so confident in their product that they offered "experts" the chance to break in to a Sierra Cosworth and if they could get it off the lot, then the car was theirs. Someone managed to, using the starter motor.

Like you say, most modern cars are keyless...so it is a bit of a no go.

[Mr Tidy]

I used to use that starter motor fix years ago.

It would still work on one of my cars, but not on my other one even though it dates from 2005 - the clutch pedal has to be pressed right down before the starter will engage.

[Cold]

So you mean I just push the starter button while pressing the brake pedal then select "D" and the car will move for about 100 yards? Good to know.

Or do I depress the clutch pedal, then push the starter button before selecting first gear and, again, it will move itself? Great hints and tips, thanks.

[Llandudno]

Cold said:

So you mean I just push the starter button while pressing the brake pedal then select "D" and the car will move for about 100 yards? Good to know.

Or do I depress the clutch pedal, then push the starter button before selecting first gear and, again, it will move itself? Great hints and tips, thanks.

In your case I’d just get behind the Armco. The well intended advice can be left alone.

[Griffith4ever]

Llandudno said:

Cold said:

So you mean I just push the starter button while pressing the brake pedal then select "D" and the car will move for about 100 yards? Good to know.

Or do I depress the clutch pedal, then push the starter button before selecting first gear and, again, it will move itself? Great hints and tips, thanks.

In your case I’d just get behind the Armco. The well intended advice can be left alone.

Brilliant!

[Cold]

Llandudno said:

Cold said:

So you mean I just push the starter button while pressing the brake pedal then select "D" and the car will move for about 100 yards? Good to know.

Or do I depress the clutch pedal, then push the starter button before selecting first gear and, again, it will move itself? Great hints and tips, thanks.

In your case I’d just get behind the Armco. The well intended advice can be left alone.

In all seriousness though, are there many manual cars left that will crank without either the clutch or brake pedal being depressed? My manual car, the one that needs the clutch pressed before it will turn over, is from 2005 - which is pretty much ancient these days.

And also, why has a car ground to a halt in an outside lane? Surely the driver would use remaining momentum to coast over to the nearside - wouldn't they? I can even recall a government sponsored advertising campaign advising such.

https://youtu.be/zDfdQlSBc6Q

[numtumfutunch]

MattsCar said:

Slightly off topic, and I don't know if this story has been diluted by Chinese whispers, but an alarm system company in the 90s were so confident in their product that they offered "experts" the chance to break in to a Sierra Cosworth and if they could get it off the lot, then the car was theirs. Someone managed to, using the starter motor.

Like you say, most modern cars are keyless...so it is a bit of a no go.

Im old enough to remember that

Im also old enough to have had an aftermarket immobiliser fitted to my car in the early 90s for a large amount of cash which failed after 2 1/2y and the only company who were prepared to remove it was the original manufacturer at a cost which was equal to what I initially paid for their product plus fitting to the car when I bought it

I kept the triangular silver sticker in my drivers window though which was potentially a bigger deterrent than the actual immobiliser

Bsatards, had forgotten about that till tonight and am now furious again

[Alias218]

Another tip for staying safe on the side of the road is to park your car in a “fend off” position, that is with the nose pointing slightly towards the road - though not so much it causes an obstruction.

This way, if something does plough into the side of it, it will be deflected away from you, albeit back into the road.

Source: ex-firefighter taught this technique at a vehicle fire fighting course at work.

[Bobupndown]

numtumfutunch said:

MattsCar said:

Slightly off topic, and I don't know if this story has been diluted by Chinese whispers, but an alarm system company in the 90s were so confident in their product that they offered "experts" the chance to break in to a Sierra Cosworth and if they could get it off the lot, then the car was theirs. Someone managed to, using the starter motor.

Like you say, most modern cars are keyless...so it is a bit of a no go.

Im old enough to remember that

Im also old enough to have had an aftermarket immobiliser fitted to my car in the early 90s for a large amount of cash which failed after 2 1/2y and the only company who were prepared to remove it was the original manufacturer at a cost which was equal to what I initially paid for their product plus fitting to the car when I bought it

I kept the triangular silver sticker in my drivers window though which was potentially a bigger deterrent than the actual immobiliser

Bsatards, had forgotten about that till tonight and am now furious again

Classic! Let it go, it was 30 years ago.

[Sheepshanks]

Cold said:

And also, why has a car ground to a halt in an outside lane?

I had that happen years ago in the outside lane on the M62 in stop / start traffic. And it was next to a slip road so the motorway was four lanes wide. I stopped and the engine died. On trying to restart it was obvious the cambelt had snapped.

This, like the OP’s story, was in a Vauxhall, somewhere around a 1990 Cavalier with a non-interference engine, and the central reservation was wide enough to take the car so I was able to move it out of the way on the starter.

Like others, I’m surprised it’s still possible - most of the cars in our family are auto and the manual SEAT, like all VW Group cars, needs the clutch pedal depressed to run the starter.

[dhutch]

Cold said:

In all seriousness though, are there many manual cars left that will crank without either the clutch or brake pedal being depressed? My manual car, the one that needs the clutch pressed before it will turn over, is from 2005 - which is pretty much ancient these days.

And also, why has a car ground to a halt in an outside lane? Surely the driver would use remaining momentum to coast over to the nearside - wouldn't they? I can even recall a government sponsored advertising campaign advising such.

https://youtu.be/zDfdQlSBc6Q

All four of our cars will.

58 plate Fiesta
X-reg BMW 330
90s Westfield
1924 Austin 12

So I guess there is a reasonable number.

I've never understood the depress clutch thing, applying the brake maybe. But if in gear, started with the clutch down, surely the next step (lifting the clutch) is going to be a worse outcome than cranking in gear!?

[dhutch]

Still a slightly odd thread however, I will grant you.

[donkmeister]

dhutch said:

All four of our cars will.

58 plate Fiesta
X-reg BMW 330
90s Westfield
1924 Austin 12

So I guess there is a reasonable number.

I've never understood the depress clutch thing, applying the brake maybe. But if in gear, started with the clutch down, surely the next step (lifting the clutch) is going to be a worse outcome than cranking in gear!?

Surely you check it's in neutral before you start it? The gear lever wiggle is ubiquitous, whether it be a simple sideways push-pull to make sure you are on the centre of the gates, or an exaggerated "shake it like a loony", or somewhere in between.

Depressing the clutch reduces drag on the starter. Whether it's a significant reduction depends on who you ask. I've always started with my foot on the service brake too, and either slotted straight into gear to move off, or released the clutch with my foot still on the service brake. I vaguely recall being taught that technique as a learner.

[Super Sonic]

donkmeister said:

I've always started with my foot on the service brake too, and either slotted straight into gear to move off, or released the clutch with my foot still on the service brake. I vaguely recall being taught that technique as a learner.

Sorry if I'm being a bit dim, I've never had a car w a foot operated parking brake, but wouldn't this just stall the car?

[dhutch]

donkmeister said:

dhutch said:

All four of our cars will.

58 plate Fiesta
X-reg BMW 330
90s Westfield
1924 Austin 12

So I guess there is a reasonable number.

I've never understood the depress clutch thing, applying the brake maybe. But if in gear, started with the clutch down, surely the next step (lifting the clutch) is going to be a worse outcome than cranking in gear!?

Surely you check it's in neutral before you start it? The gear lever wiggle is ubiquitous, whether it be a simple sideways push-pull to make sure you are on the centre of the gates, or an exaggerated "shake it like a loony", or somewhere in between.

Depressing the clutch reduces drag on the starter. Whether it's a significant reduction depends on who you ask. I've always started with my foot on the service brake too, and either slotted straight into gear to move off, or released the clutch with my foot still on the service brake. I vaguely recall being taught that technique as a learner.

Definitely check for neutral, and have only hit start in gear I think once in nearly 20 years of driving.

Just don't understand the inforced clutch/brake press. I can't see the drag being significantly less!

[Sheepshanks]

Super Sonic said:

donkmeister said:

I've always started with my foot on the service brake too, and either slotted straight into gear to move off, or released the clutch with my foot still on the service brake. I vaguely recall being taught that technique as a learner.

Sorry if I'm being a bit dim, I've never had a car w a foot operated parking brake, but wouldn't this just stall the car?

“Service brake” is just the normal foot operated brake, not the parking/handbrake.

[David A]

Bobupndown said:

numtumfutunch said:

MattsCar said:

Slightly off topic, and I don't know if this story has been diluted by Chinese whispers, but an alarm system company in the 90s were so confident in their product that they offered "experts" the chance to break in to a Sierra Cosworth and if they could get it off the lot, then the car was theirs. Someone managed to, using the starter motor.

Like you say, most modern cars are keyless...so it is a bit of a no go.

Im old enough to remember that

Im also old enough to have had an aftermarket immobiliser fitted to my car in the early 90s for a large amount of cash which failed after 2 1/2y and the only company who were prepared to remove it was the original manufacturer at a cost which was equal to what I initially paid for their product plus fitting to the car when I bought it

I kept the triangular silver sticker in my drivers window though which was potentially a bigger deterrent than the actual immobiliser

Bsatards, had forgotten about that till tonight and am now furious again

Classic! Let it go, it was 30 years ago.

Unlike the expensive immobiliser I had fitted to mine in the 90’s. It failed and the car wouldn’t start (obviously!) called out an independent car alarm firm who had it out in less than 10mins… imagine it would have been quicker if they weren’t being tidy with the dash.

[DonkeyApple]

90s car alarms were great fun! Rumble a V8 down a residential street that was double parked and half the alarms would go off. Then park your V8 near a military installation and it wouldn't let you start it until you'd pushed it far enough away.

Re the useful trick of winding a manual car out of trouble using the starter, I suspect there aren't that many cars still around that will allow you. I can't even move a modern car with the door open thanks to Brian Harvey's baked potato.