Insurance cancelled, advice needed
Discussion
I recently bought a Hastings Direct black box policy for one of my children.
Hastings receives appalling reviews for such policies, but it was cheaper than elsewhere and I thought it would be fine, because the child in question is quite responsible.
The conditions are that the box or tab must be paired with an app within 13 days of the policy inception date and I took it out on 23 February at 6pm. The exact wording is:
"You must have the Hastings Direct app downloaded to your phone and paired with your YouDrive tab within 13 days of
your policy’s start date"
We took this to mean 8 March, so I insisted that it was set up no later than 7th.
Login problems ensued and it was eventually not paired until 08:35 on 8th.
I assumed it would be fine, because it was strictly within 13 days, but Hastings has cancelled the policy on the basis that they consider the policy starts from 00:00 on the day of inception and they count that day as "day 1". They can see repeated attempted logins on 7th but they (so far) are having none of it - the rules are strict. It has been explained that it was not possible to call them for assistance (they close at 7pm) and they don't have an out of hours voicemail on which to leave a message.
I am mid-way through a dialogue with their complaints department and the agent seems to want to find a resolution. However, as I write, the policy remains cancelled.
My concern is not so much returning to market; I would be quite happy to see the back of Hastings and I would probably go for a non black box policy. The issue is the cancellation and whether it will always need to be disclosed. If it does, it may be like an albatross.
Ironically Hastings is quite happy to re-quote (an additional £400 please) and when I told them about the cancellation they said "ah, you don't need to disclose that. It's only if you've lied or been guilty of something more serious".
I suspect that Hastings can deal with the cancellation in such a way that it doesn't need to be disclosed. Them doing so may form part of the resolution with them, if it is possible.
Does anyone have any knowledge here please? Ideally professional knowledge as someone who works in insurance.
Many thanks in advance.
Edited to add, I've dug out the Certificate of Insurance and it says "Effective date of the commencement of insurance for the purpose
of the relevant law
Your insurance starts at 17.51 on 23rd February 2023"
So based upon that at least we complied with the T&Cs.
Hastings receives appalling reviews for such policies, but it was cheaper than elsewhere and I thought it would be fine, because the child in question is quite responsible.
The conditions are that the box or tab must be paired with an app within 13 days of the policy inception date and I took it out on 23 February at 6pm. The exact wording is:
"You must have the Hastings Direct app downloaded to your phone and paired with your YouDrive tab within 13 days of
your policy’s start date"
We took this to mean 8 March, so I insisted that it was set up no later than 7th.
Login problems ensued and it was eventually not paired until 08:35 on 8th.
I assumed it would be fine, because it was strictly within 13 days, but Hastings has cancelled the policy on the basis that they consider the policy starts from 00:00 on the day of inception and they count that day as "day 1". They can see repeated attempted logins on 7th but they (so far) are having none of it - the rules are strict. It has been explained that it was not possible to call them for assistance (they close at 7pm) and they don't have an out of hours voicemail on which to leave a message.
I am mid-way through a dialogue with their complaints department and the agent seems to want to find a resolution. However, as I write, the policy remains cancelled.
My concern is not so much returning to market; I would be quite happy to see the back of Hastings and I would probably go for a non black box policy. The issue is the cancellation and whether it will always need to be disclosed. If it does, it may be like an albatross.
Ironically Hastings is quite happy to re-quote (an additional £400 please) and when I told them about the cancellation they said "ah, you don't need to disclose that. It's only if you've lied or been guilty of something more serious".
I suspect that Hastings can deal with the cancellation in such a way that it doesn't need to be disclosed. Them doing so may form part of the resolution with them, if it is possible.
Does anyone have any knowledge here please? Ideally professional knowledge as someone who works in insurance.
Many thanks in advance.
Edited to add, I've dug out the Certificate of Insurance and it says "Effective date of the commencement of insurance for the purpose
of the relevant law
Your insurance starts at 17.51 on 23rd February 2023"
So based upon that at least we complied with the T&Cs.
Edited by Louis Balfour on Thursday 9th March 20:16
My son had a black box policy with a different provider and he was commuting to a summer place of work 45 mins north of home on twisty roads. He repeatedly exceeded the allowable accelerative forces due to spirited driving (within the speed limit) and ignored his emails for a couple of weeks. The insurance company had given him 2 warnings and then said they would start cancellation proceedings. At this point he read his emails and had the sense to ask me to help. I phoned them and asked if we could cancel (as opposed to them cancelling him) and they happily agreed. So we escaped unscathed but decided a black box policy was probably not the best idea.
They seemed only too happy to let him cancel the policy as they understood the consequences of them cancelling him. I was quite impressed with them.
Not Hastings though.
They seemed only too happy to let him cancel the policy as they understood the consequences of them cancelling him. I was quite impressed with them.
Not Hastings though.
Sebring440 said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
OP, why did you leave it until right near what you thought was the deadline to set it up. That's just asking for problems.
^^^^ This. Whatever were you thinking?How many years do you have to declare "Have you ever had a policy cancelled?"
Anything helpful to add?
Louis Balfour said:
Well for a start off the tab didn’t arrive much before we tried to fit it. Secondly, according to their terms, it should have been in plenty of time.
Anything helpful to add?
On that basis raise a complaint that the Tab was not sent in sufficient time. Anything helpful to add?
Last time I mentioned this company as bottomfeeders like the Naval chap, my comment was removed.
andy43 said:
If you’ve proof the tab (whatever that is) arrived late I’d tell Hastings either they reinstate the policy and/or allow you to cancel the policy or you’ll take it to the ombudsman.
My aim today is to negotiate a position where we cancel. I am more than happy to go elsewhere. Though I am not sure whether one can cancel what has already been cancelled, as it were.Louis Balfour said:
Edited to add, I've dug out the Certificate of Insurance and it says "Effective date of the commencement of insurance for the purpose
of the relevant law
Your insurance starts at 17.51 on 23rd February 2023"
So based upon that at least we complied with the T&Cs.
Send them this, in whatever form. If they won't have it then escalate to the ombudsman.of the relevant law
Your insurance starts at 17.51 on 23rd February 2023"
So based upon that at least we complied with the T&Cs.
FWIW I had an awful claim with Hastings and they were worse than useless, never ever again.
Can't you just tell them your child was away with their phone and you did it at the first opportunity you could?
My son has the same policy and they contacted him when it showed he hadn't used his car for more than 30 days. He said he was away at Uni and they just said that was fine and they would mark it on the system. They were very helpful in that instance.
My son has the same policy and they contacted him when it showed he hadn't used his car for more than 30 days. He said he was away at Uni and they just said that was fine and they would mark it on the system. They were very helpful in that instance.
Krikkit said:
Louis Balfour said:
Edited to add, I've dug out the Certificate of Insurance and it says "Effective date of the commencement of insurance for the purpose
of the relevant law
Your insurance starts at 17.51 on 23rd February 2023"
So based upon that at least we complied with the T&Cs.
Send them this, in whatever form. If they won't have it then escalate to the ombudsman.of the relevant law
Your insurance starts at 17.51 on 23rd February 2023"
So based upon that at least we complied with the T&Cs.
FWIW I had an awful claim with Hastings and they were worse than useless, never ever again.
They will not reinstate the policy because they view the 13 days to include the first day, even though the policy wasn't bought until 17.51 on 23rd.
The complaints handler didn't realise that was what she was arguing, but in effect that is what she was saying. On the basis that they are an insurer and do this all the time I assume they are correct.
I did point out that the policy started at 17:51 on 23rd February and asked whether they would have paid out, had the car been stolen at 10:00am and we hadn't found out until after we'd bought the policy. After all they are saying that the insurance began at 00:01 on 23rd. She became flustered and said that we weren't talking about that.
But the good news is that she is writing to me stating that we never need to disclose the cancellation, because it was not a cancellation arising from misdemeanour, but instead that the setting up of the policy could not be concluded due to pairing issues with the tab.
So, whilst it has been a pain in the arse, we may have had the best possible outcome. We get to return to market unencumbered and we will probably seek out a policy without a black box. We may not include Hastings in our search.
Edited to add that this is what they have just sent through:
"Also as advised I wanted to reassure you by letting you know that you do not need to declare this cancellation to future insurers. This is because we have not refused you cover, the cancellation is due to the timescales not being adhered to. So just to be really clear for you, you do not need to declare this cancellation to future insurers as this has been recorded as cancelled due to app/tab not being paired in time."
Edited by Louis Balfour on Friday 10th March 10:04
My dad had one of these Black Box Policies, not Hastings.
Right PITA
the box in 12 months was exchanged 4 times due to malfunction
Stuff like driving for 10 hours solid whilst car was parked up, dad on holiday
Excessive speeding in a diesel Berlingo
The box threw a right wobbly when the car was abroad
At the end of 12 months and with a bit of persuading I searched for a policy, non BB.
Added me to the policy as a named driver, not main driver and we saved a few quid
BB policy no thanks
Right PITA
the box in 12 months was exchanged 4 times due to malfunction
Stuff like driving for 10 hours solid whilst car was parked up, dad on holiday
Excessive speeding in a diesel Berlingo
The box threw a right wobbly when the car was abroad
At the end of 12 months and with a bit of persuading I searched for a policy, non BB.
Added me to the policy as a named driver, not main driver and we saved a few quid
BB policy no thanks
Louis Balfour said:
"You must have the Hastings Direct app downloaded to your phone and paired with your YouDrive tab within 13 days of
your policy’s start date"
We took this to mean 8 March, so I insisted that it was set up no later than 7th.
Login problems ensued and it was eventually not paired until 08:35 on 8th.
I assumed it would be fine, because it was strictly within 13 days, but Hastings has cancelled the policy on the basis that they consider the policy starts from 00:00 on the day of inception and they count that day as "day 1". They can see repeated attempted logins on 7th but they (so far) are having none of it - the rules are strict. It has been explained that it was not possible to call them for assistance (they close at 7pm) and they don't have an out of hours voicemail on which to leave a message.
Bit like telling a child your homework is due in on Monday morning so I insist you do it by midnight on Sunday.your policy’s start date"
We took this to mean 8 March, so I insisted that it was set up no later than 7th.
Login problems ensued and it was eventually not paired until 08:35 on 8th.
I assumed it would be fine, because it was strictly within 13 days, but Hastings has cancelled the policy on the basis that they consider the policy starts from 00:00 on the day of inception and they count that day as "day 1". They can see repeated attempted logins on 7th but they (so far) are having none of it - the rules are strict. It has been explained that it was not possible to call them for assistance (they close at 7pm) and they don't have an out of hours voicemail on which to leave a message.
Louis Balfour said:
OK I have just had a call with Hastings complaints.
They will not reinstate the policy because they view the 13 days to include the first day, even though the policy wasn't bought until 17.51 on 23rd.
The complaints handler didn't realise that was what she was arguing, but in effect that is what she was saying. On the basis that they are an insurer and do this all the time I assume they are correct.
I did point out that the policy started at 17:51 on 23rd February and asked whether they would have paid out, had the car been stolen at 10:00am and we hadn't found out until after we'd bought the policy. After all they are saying that the insurance began at 00:01 on 23rd. She became flustered and said that we weren't talking about that.
But the good news is that she is writing to me stating that we never need to disclose the cancellation, because it was not a cancellation arising from misdemeanour, but instead that the setting up of the policy could not be concluded due to pairing issues with the tab.
So, whilst it has been a pain in the arse, we may have had the best possible outcome. We get to return to market unencumbered and we will probably seek out a policy without a black box. We may not include Hastings in our search.
Edited to add that this is what they have just sent through:
"Also as advised I wanted to reassure you by letting you know that you do not need to declare this cancellation to future insurers. This is because we have not refused you cover, the cancellation is due to the timescales not being adhered to. So just to be really clear for you, you do not need to declare this cancellation to future insurers as this has been recorded as cancelled due to app/tab not being paired in time."
They seemed to end up by sending that email being quite efficient and just a shame for you that they couldn’t reinstate the policy as such. They will not reinstate the policy because they view the 13 days to include the first day, even though the policy wasn't bought until 17.51 on 23rd.
The complaints handler didn't realise that was what she was arguing, but in effect that is what she was saying. On the basis that they are an insurer and do this all the time I assume they are correct.
I did point out that the policy started at 17:51 on 23rd February and asked whether they would have paid out, had the car been stolen at 10:00am and we hadn't found out until after we'd bought the policy. After all they are saying that the insurance began at 00:01 on 23rd. She became flustered and said that we weren't talking about that.
But the good news is that she is writing to me stating that we never need to disclose the cancellation, because it was not a cancellation arising from misdemeanour, but instead that the setting up of the policy could not be concluded due to pairing issues with the tab.
So, whilst it has been a pain in the arse, we may have had the best possible outcome. We get to return to market unencumbered and we will probably seek out a policy without a black box. We may not include Hastings in our search.
Edited to add that this is what they have just sent through:
"Also as advised I wanted to reassure you by letting you know that you do not need to declare this cancellation to future insurers. This is because we have not refused you cover, the cancellation is due to the timescales not being adhered to. So just to be really clear for you, you do not need to declare this cancellation to future insurers as this has been recorded as cancelled due to app/tab not being paired in time."
Edited by Louis Balfour on Friday 10th March 10:04
Maybe it’s a blessing in disguise as you can now go with someone else that might not require the black box.
Sheepshanks said:
I wonder if that's the nub of it?
I believe they're not an insurer, they're a broker. So they may be hamstrung by what whoever provides the insurance is telling them.
I believe they are a general Insurance provider ie company and owned by Sampo group in itself a Scandinavian Insurance company.I believe they're not an insurer, they're a broker. So they may be hamstrung by what whoever provides the insurance is telling them.
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