Historic US safety v EU safety V Efficiency
Discussion
Got into a YouTube hole as you do and watched a few videos talking about European cars going over to the US. Historically, it seems at times US safety drove the design. Was it that in the 70-90s US standards were higher than ours, which dictated the design? Or am I miss interpreting it? Except for the Scandinavians of course. I'm not old enough to remember cars not being "safe"
The other side was that our engines were (and still are) much more efficient than theirs. They had their fuel crises but post that, burning fuel in the family motor wasn't a big deal as it their asset compared to us where MPG was a consideration.
I'm just thinking now, buying a family car we don't think of safety any more, probably because of NCAP. Vovlo and their seat belts probably helped that for example.
The other side was that our engines were (and still are) much more efficient than theirs. They had their fuel crises but post that, burning fuel in the family motor wasn't a big deal as it their asset compared to us where MPG was a consideration.
I'm just thinking now, buying a family car we don't think of safety any more, probably because of NCAP. Vovlo and their seat belts probably helped that for example.
Edited by Type R Tom on Thursday 9th March 22:46
I would agree that safety standards around the world arent necessarily consistent or predictable. I wouldnt single out the US as being particularly good in this aspect though. In general they are pretty good from a road engineering point of view - there are some amazing roads here that are well engineered and predictable - but they also have a terrible track record with safety in general.
For example, not really on crash safety, but drink driving is a thing here and its terrible in comparison to Europe as a whole. Seatbelt wearing has only been something that for many states has been introduced in the 90's! In some cases the fines are laughable! Crash safety also should be examined too. Its only been relatively recently that the US has been focused on this and with the proliferation of giant SUV's it will always make it worse. Pick-ups were only included in car safety standards in 1999 and even after then, there are no IIHS top safety picks for ANY pickup!
Yes, the US was fast to enforce things like big stupid bumpers and airbags. But these were in response to a frankly terrible death record on US roads. It has improved things, but the US still has a bad record when compared to other nations and I certainly wouldnt be giving them much praise. And this is before we start talking about very large pick-ups, weight limits, annual inspections and working safety equipment....
For example, not really on crash safety, but drink driving is a thing here and its terrible in comparison to Europe as a whole. Seatbelt wearing has only been something that for many states has been introduced in the 90's! In some cases the fines are laughable! Crash safety also should be examined too. Its only been relatively recently that the US has been focused on this and with the proliferation of giant SUV's it will always make it worse. Pick-ups were only included in car safety standards in 1999 and even after then, there are no IIHS top safety picks for ANY pickup!
Yes, the US was fast to enforce things like big stupid bumpers and airbags. But these were in response to a frankly terrible death record on US roads. It has improved things, but the US still has a bad record when compared to other nations and I certainly wouldnt be giving them much praise. And this is before we start talking about very large pick-ups, weight limits, annual inspections and working safety equipment....
off_again said:
I would agree that safety standards around the world arent necessarily consistent or predictable. I wouldnt single out the US as being particularly good in this aspect though. In general they are pretty good from a road engineering point of view - there are some amazing roads here that are well engineered and predictable - but they also have a terrible track record with safety in general.
For example, not really on crash safety, but drink driving is a thing here and its terrible in comparison to Europe as a whole. Seatbelt wearing has only been something that for many states has been introduced in the 90's! In some cases the fines are laughable! Crash safety also should be examined too. Its only been relatively recently that the US has been focused on this and with the proliferation of giant SUV's it will always make it worse. Pick-ups were only included in car safety standards in 1999 and even after then, there are no IIHS top safety picks for ANY pickup!
Yes, the US was fast to enforce things like big stupid bumpers and airbags. But these were in response to a frankly terrible death record on US roads. It has improved things, but the US still has a bad record when compared to other nations and I certainly wouldnt be giving them much praise. And this is before we start talking about very large pick-ups, weight limits, annual inspections and working safety equipment....
I've seen clips that preventing drink driving being compared to communism. I've also seen photos of pick-ups where a child's height doesn't make it to the headlightsFor example, not really on crash safety, but drink driving is a thing here and its terrible in comparison to Europe as a whole. Seatbelt wearing has only been something that for many states has been introduced in the 90's! In some cases the fines are laughable! Crash safety also should be examined too. Its only been relatively recently that the US has been focused on this and with the proliferation of giant SUV's it will always make it worse. Pick-ups were only included in car safety standards in 1999 and even after then, there are no IIHS top safety picks for ANY pickup!
Yes, the US was fast to enforce things like big stupid bumpers and airbags. But these were in response to a frankly terrible death record on US roads. It has improved things, but the US still has a bad record when compared to other nations and I certainly wouldnt be giving them much praise. And this is before we start talking about very large pick-ups, weight limits, annual inspections and working safety equipment....
Such a difference in standards!
I don't know if US safety standards were higher, more likely just different - as far as I know they had some specific regulations for bumpers etc which were often different to the original design of EU / UK cars, so they needed design changes to comply with that for selling in the US.
As a general point when looking at design differences its often worth considering the difference in how cars are/were used - EU and UK cars typically smaller to suit use in cities (especially established older towns and cities with narrower roads) and shorter distances, while the USA had a lot of wide open space with long interstate highway journeys etc, so they favoured bigger cars with big unstressed engines for relaxed long distance cruising. And as a younger nation more of their towns and cities had been laid out with vehicle traffic in mind, providing wider roads etc.
As a general point when looking at design differences its often worth considering the difference in how cars are/were used - EU and UK cars typically smaller to suit use in cities (especially established older towns and cities with narrower roads) and shorter distances, while the USA had a lot of wide open space with long interstate highway journeys etc, so they favoured bigger cars with big unstressed engines for relaxed long distance cruising. And as a younger nation more of their towns and cities had been laid out with vehicle traffic in mind, providing wider roads etc.
Good example, the US doesn’t have an issue with the floor tearing open during a crash test (provided the dummies foot doesn’t fall out) whereas with ENCAP that is an absolute no no.
You also only have to look at the ENCAP scores for US engineered vehicles, e.g. Mustang and Wrangler, to realise they have different (not necessarily wrong) expectations.
You also only have to look at the ENCAP scores for US engineered vehicles, e.g. Mustang and Wrangler, to realise they have different (not necessarily wrong) expectations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsafe_at_Any_Speed
In the 90s I saw a dog eared copy of the book someone had got as an inter library loan.
Nader has had four runs at being President:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Nader
With regard to the comment about litigation Nader went to Harvard Law School.
In the 90s I saw a dog eared copy of the book someone had got as an inter library loan.
Nader has had four runs at being President:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Nader
With regard to the comment about litigation Nader went to Harvard Law School.
Forums | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff