How much abuse can high performance cars take?
Discussion
Ive put a lot of abuse into my current car, about 15,000 miles since ive bought it its really been driven hard. Its also been remapped lol.
I always let it warm up its oil first and let it cool down a bit after, but im constantly thinking its time is nearly up every time i drive it hard, but i cant help driving it hard because its insane/a lot of joy. Also gets serviced more than it needs too.
For context its a B58/ZF8 combo m140i at roughly 430bhp. Currently only has 35,000 miles on it.
I always let it warm up its oil first and let it cool down a bit after, but im constantly thinking its time is nearly up every time i drive it hard, but i cant help driving it hard because its insane/a lot of joy. Also gets serviced more than it needs too.
For context its a B58/ZF8 combo m140i at roughly 430bhp. Currently only has 35,000 miles on it.
Define abuse? It does not sound like the car is being abused, rather it is being driven hard. With proper care and maintenance, which it sounds like you are doing, then it should be absolutely fine for a very long time, generally speaking.
The gearbox will be taking much of the risk out of it, as you won't be sidestepping clutches or miss shifting. You can't really over rev these, so unless the oil is cold (or absent), you are driving mostly within its specified operational parameters.
Except for the remap, that is the bit that might cause longer term issues, but that all depends on who did the map and how well it is written.
The gearbox will be taking much of the risk out of it, as you won't be sidestepping clutches or miss shifting. You can't really over rev these, so unless the oil is cold (or absent), you are driving mostly within its specified operational parameters.
Except for the remap, that is the bit that might cause longer term issues, but that all depends on who did the map and how well it is written.
By driving hard on public roads i mean things like:
Full bore accelaration on a slip road.
Accelerating full throttle in blips between 20mph to 40mpg, 30mph to 60mph etc.
Not breaking speed limits but enough power through the rear wheels that they break traction in the dry.
It just feels like a lot of power to be putting through the car consistently etc.
Full bore accelaration on a slip road.
Accelerating full throttle in blips between 20mph to 40mpg, 30mph to 60mph etc.
Not breaking speed limits but enough power through the rear wheels that they break traction in the dry.
It just feels like a lot of power to be putting through the car consistently etc.
inline6bmwfan said:
By driving hard on public roads i mean things like:
Full bore accelaration on a slip road.
Accelerating full throttle in blips between 20mph to 40mpg, 30mph to 60mph etc.
Not breaking speed limits but enough power through the rear wheels that they break traction in the dry.
It just feels like a lot of power to be putting through the car consistently etc.
I saw a bloke do this joining the M4 a few days ago in an RS4. LIike the Millenium Falcon down the slip road then Driving Miss Daisy on the motorway. It seemed a really odd way to progress.Full bore accelaration on a slip road.
Accelerating full throttle in blips between 20mph to 40mpg, 30mph to 60mph etc.
Not breaking speed limits but enough power through the rear wheels that they break traction in the dry.
It just feels like a lot of power to be putting through the car consistently etc.
inline6bmwfan said:
By driving hard on public roads i mean things like:
Full bore accelaration on a slip road.
Accelerating full throttle in blips between 20mph to 40mpg, 30mph to 60mph etc.
Not breaking speed limits but enough power through the rear wheels that they break traction in the dry.
It just feels like a lot of power to be putting through the car consistently etc.
This is commuting, non? Full bore accelaration on a slip road.
Accelerating full throttle in blips between 20mph to 40mpg, 30mph to 60mph etc.
Not breaking speed limits but enough power through the rear wheels that they break traction in the dry.
It just feels like a lot of power to be putting through the car consistently etc.
What you describe is not driving hard. As long as it's warm when you do 'pulls' it'll be fine.
inline6bmwfan said:
By driving hard on public roads i mean things like:
Full bore accelaration on a slip road.
Accelerating full throttle in blips between 20mph to 40mpg, 30mph to 60mph etc.
Not breaking speed limits but enough power through the rear wheels that they break traction in the dry.
It just feels like a lot of power to be putting through the car consistently etc.
It all sounds very mild. Go on a track day and see how cars are used properly Full bore accelaration on a slip road.
Accelerating full throttle in blips between 20mph to 40mpg, 30mph to 60mph etc.
Not breaking speed limits but enough power through the rear wheels that they break traction in the dry.
It just feels like a lot of power to be putting through the car consistently etc.
t out of them, then clock them before the 1st MOT. Then later they appear on a dealer forecourt as a 1 owner totally standard approved used lemon.you'll likely get through tyres quickly, but other than that, you'll likely be fine. the gearbox can take the torque, and the engine will be safe at that torque levels too. problems will really come when you're boosting waaay above standard, in which case you'll be seriously working the components of the engine and gearbox, and are at risk of breaking things. thats where forged pistons etc come in.
the other main killer of engines is heat - bouncing off the limiter while the car is standing still will quickly overheat an engine as theres no airflow to cool anything down, but if you're moving when you're doing pulls you'll be fine.
as others have said, do a trackday or two. that'll work the tyres hard, engine will be at max power for sustained periods of time, suspension will be getting bashed over kerbs, brakes will be getting really hot, and so on. though, with management and maintenance, even this isnt particularly a problem. modern cars are designed to take a fair bit of abuse. Everyone loves a good pull through 2nd and 3rd gear now and then, whats the point of having a relatively powerful car and not using it!
And as always, please hoon responsibly!
the other main killer of engines is heat - bouncing off the limiter while the car is standing still will quickly overheat an engine as theres no airflow to cool anything down, but if you're moving when you're doing pulls you'll be fine.
as others have said, do a trackday or two. that'll work the tyres hard, engine will be at max power for sustained periods of time, suspension will be getting bashed over kerbs, brakes will be getting really hot, and so on. though, with management and maintenance, even this isnt particularly a problem. modern cars are designed to take a fair bit of abuse. Everyone loves a good pull through 2nd and 3rd gear now and then, whats the point of having a relatively powerful car and not using it!
And as always, please hoon responsibly!
Glenn63 said:
Iv also an M140 running 500bhp, my daily used everyday, full power whenever there’s an opportunity, and I did 6 track days last year and I use it as hard as I can on track. Zero issues so far.
Also it’s only bits of metal, if it brakes il fix it.
With 500bhp on tap you want to hope it brakes. Also it’s only bits of metal, if it brakes il fix it.
Abuse and driving hard, in my opinion aren't the same thing really. Abusing a car is not servicing it, driving it hard from cold and essentially mistreating it.
Where as driving it hard, servicing it properly, letting the engine warm up and cool down I consider are just using the power the car has. That's all within the confines of road driving at least.
Also, having a high powered car is one thing. I have a 500bhp car and don't find there's much opportunity to stretch it's legs. You can use bursts of acceleration but it's not troubled by 70mph on a motorway and even if you creep over that, it's not really pushing it.
I've always been more inclined to drive a lower powered car a bit harder, get the power out of it or use full power as you're not doing silly speeds. I drive my Saab 9-3 fairly hard at times, it's a mapped twin turbo diesel and I use the power and torque it has to it's fullest, it's got 130k and has no issues. Suspect the previous owner used it well too but looked after it.
I suspect there's more slow cars that are genuinely abused and not cared for, they still last.
Where as driving it hard, servicing it properly, letting the engine warm up and cool down I consider are just using the power the car has. That's all within the confines of road driving at least.
Also, having a high powered car is one thing. I have a 500bhp car and don't find there's much opportunity to stretch it's legs. You can use bursts of acceleration but it's not troubled by 70mph on a motorway and even if you creep over that, it's not really pushing it.
I've always been more inclined to drive a lower powered car a bit harder, get the power out of it or use full power as you're not doing silly speeds. I drive my Saab 9-3 fairly hard at times, it's a mapped twin turbo diesel and I use the power and torque it has to it's fullest, it's got 130k and has no issues. Suspect the previous owner used it well too but looked after it.
I suspect there's more slow cars that are genuinely abused and not cared for, they still last.
It'll be fine, yoy keep on top of the oil changes which is the important bit for th engine. Consider a transmission service from 60,000 miles or so (ZF do state transmission service intervals, even though BMW does not). You should also consider replacing the diff oil at the same time.
Else, on the road, you might think you're pushing hard and rpessing on, but in reality those moments are few and far between - the pace of other traffic will mean your car is more often than not at light throttle loadgins and the revs are low. If you were regularly track-daying your car, then you might be on for other issues from really operating at the upper end of the cars performance ability, but road use is fine.
Keep an eye on chassis components too and consider them serviceable items.
Else, on the road, you might think you're pushing hard and rpessing on, but in reality those moments are few and far between - the pace of other traffic will mean your car is more often than not at light throttle loadgins and the revs are low. If you were regularly track-daying your car, then you might be on for other issues from really operating at the upper end of the cars performance ability, but road use is fine.
Keep an eye on chassis components too and consider them serviceable items.
VAG engines are run for 24 hours at max revs during testing. If there are any problems as a result the engine fails and is redesigned.
I'm sure other manufacturers do the same.
Think about it. How many cars* do you know that have had actual engine failure? Rust, damage, engine ancillaries, suspension all write cars off come MOT time, but I've never heard of one that does purely down to the engine breaking.
I'm sure other manufacturers do the same.
Think about it. How many cars* do you know that have had actual engine failure? Rust, damage, engine ancillaries, suspension all write cars off come MOT time, but I've never heard of one that does purely down to the engine breaking.
- Assuming servicing.
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