Fuel economy, what do you consider bad?
Discussion
Few recent threads have got me wondering if I'm out of touch. For example the recent PH articles on the Insignia VXR and Legacy Spec B have received plenty of comments about the fuel economy of these being awful. We are talking cars that typically do 25-35mpg. For something with performance in this area or higher I'd be happy with those figures and most of my daily drivers over the years have been in that range, Subarus, Audis, Hyundai, Vauxhall, BMW ranging in age from 1990s to 2020.
The only thing I've had with reasonable performance and capable of excellent economy was an Octavia VXR.
What sort of mpg are people expecting from cars like this? What are you getting? What would be low enough to stop you buying a car?
The only thing I've had with reasonable performance and capable of excellent economy was an Octavia VXR.
What sort of mpg are people expecting from cars like this? What are you getting? What would be low enough to stop you buying a car?
Id say any diesel that couldnt do 35mpg, or any petrol that couldnt do 25mpg on a long, steady cruise. Though its horses for courses... reason i traded my 335i for a 330d was because the 335i only averaged 28mpg. Wheras the 330d does 37mpg.
Neither of which are particularly brilliant, but both had 300+ bhp, so cant complain.
More real world, any car that cant do 300miles on a tank gets tedious needing to fill up so often.
Neither of which are particularly brilliant, but both had 300+ bhp, so cant complain.
More real world, any car that cant do 300miles on a tank gets tedious needing to fill up so often.
I don't get overly concerned about the MPG of any of my cars due to my relatively low mileage, for me the difference between a 20 and 40mpg car is barely a few hundred quid a year.
I also find that other consumables like tyres & brakes can be substantially different on vehicles with similar performance for example I was surprised that the 2piece front brake discs on a Audi RS3 cost £1500 yet the 2 piece even larger AP racing discs on a HSV Monaro "only" cost £370 which frees up £1100 for fuel;)
I also find that other consumables like tyres & brakes can be substantially different on vehicles with similar performance for example I was surprised that the 2piece front brake discs on a Audi RS3 cost £1500 yet the 2 piece even larger AP racing discs on a HSV Monaro "only" cost £370 which frees up £1100 for fuel;)
Subaru WRX (2.5 hawkeye) = 25mpg - i'm ok with that as it only covers 4000 miles per year doing short-ish journeys so to be expected really.
If that was closer to 15-20mpg then i'd say that was daft on a power-to-mpg-basis and look for a V8 to spend my petrol money on instead.
(I've probably only lost about £1-2k in depreciation over those 10 years so it makes up for the drink problem).
If that was closer to 15-20mpg then i'd say that was daft on a power-to-mpg-basis and look for a V8 to spend my petrol money on instead.
(I've probably only lost about £1-2k in depreciation over those 10 years so it makes up for the drink problem).
I think there's a lot of subjectivity.
One of my cars has a reputation for being truly awful - my V12 Jag. It does 16-21mpg for me, which is entirely in keeping with if not better than other big engine 1980s cars where they existed. Lots of exotica and not so exotica still does teens to the gallon. Admittedly they've got faster.
Cars like that flat 6 Legacy, or I suppose the Mazda RX-8 are really bad on fuel for the size of car and the not-that-impressive performance you got compared to their contemporaries. E.g. getting 22mpg in an RX-8 is about similar to what you'd get from a contemporary XKR whether by model year or what the same money could buy you, but the XKR had a big V8 and was much faster.
Usually though, I think it's people in not-very-PH-cars comparing much smoother, much nicer sounding, more desirable cars' fuel consumption to whatever they're used to from the 1.whatever litre 3 or 4 cylinder.
One of my cars has a reputation for being truly awful - my V12 Jag. It does 16-21mpg for me, which is entirely in keeping with if not better than other big engine 1980s cars where they existed. Lots of exotica and not so exotica still does teens to the gallon. Admittedly they've got faster.
Cars like that flat 6 Legacy, or I suppose the Mazda RX-8 are really bad on fuel for the size of car and the not-that-impressive performance you got compared to their contemporaries. E.g. getting 22mpg in an RX-8 is about similar to what you'd get from a contemporary XKR whether by model year or what the same money could buy you, but the XKR had a big V8 and was much faster.
Usually though, I think it's people in not-very-PH-cars comparing much smoother, much nicer sounding, more desirable cars' fuel consumption to whatever they're used to from the 1.whatever litre 3 or 4 cylinder.
V8 Mercedes CLS was pretty thirsty but no worse than the 350Z that replaced it despite being heavier and having 100 bhp extra. Both late teens to early twenties knocking about, saw 30 mpg on the Merc once.
My son came round in his mates supercharged Monaro, he got 21 mpg driving from Glasgow to Manchester but reckons on 160 miles to £90 urban/having fun, so a bit of mental arithmetic suggests low teens.
Tuned Fiesta ST about 30 average, will dip into the twenties and was doing 12 on track on the computer, and that's a bit optimistic.
My son came round in his mates supercharged Monaro, he got 21 mpg driving from Glasgow to Manchester but reckons on 160 miles to £90 urban/having fun, so a bit of mental arithmetic suggests low teens.
Tuned Fiesta ST about 30 average, will dip into the twenties and was doing 12 on track on the computer, and that's a bit optimistic.
Sub 20 mpg is bad to me. I had a TVR Cerbera that average 19mpg and a 5.7 Monaro for a short while that was down to 15 mpg round town. 
My present Griffith averages 22 mpg, but the overall running costs aren't that bad when you only do 1000 miles a year in it.
I also have a 1.2 Fiat Panda and I'm disappointed if that falls below 50 mpg. 
My present Griffith averages 22 mpg, but the overall running costs aren't that bad when you only do 1000 miles a year in it.
I also have a 1.2 Fiat Panda and I'm disappointed if that falls below 50 mpg. My S6 is thirsty, mostly used for short journeys but don't a lot of miles, average 9-14mpg in the city traffic, 20+ on a run overall average is around 18mpg.
Can easily get sub 10 city in a lot of traffic and with a heavy right foot! My definition of bad is sub 20, sub 15mpg is really bad!
Can easily get sub 10 city in a lot of traffic and with a heavy right foot! My definition of bad is sub 20, sub 15mpg is really bad!
Range Rover Evoque - due to the types of driving that we were doing, we were getting 12-14MPG, which was shocking. We were going through a tank of fuel in a week and even when filled up, it was barely over 200 miles range! That hurt. On a run it was OK, but that was too bad. Bought an i3 and had a massive drop in fuel costs.
Its not necessarily MPG being bad, but if it doesnt work for the profile that we need from it, thats different. A car that does early teen MPG is fine, if the mileage is low or its fun driving. But to put up with that as a daily stuck in traffic 3 hours a day - thats going to suck.
Its not necessarily MPG being bad, but if it doesnt work for the profile that we need from it, thats different. A car that does early teen MPG is fine, if the mileage is low or its fun driving. But to put up with that as a daily stuck in traffic 3 hours a day - thats going to suck.
For a petrol car, anything in single digits in town, or sub 20 on the motorway.
Moving to electric, anything 500wH/mile and over is getting rather poor.
Having just mulled over which vehicle to take on a longer trip, I worked out that my petrol car only needed to beat 18mpg to work out cheaper than taking the electric car and utilising the fast charging network @ £75p/Kwh
Guess which one I took?
Moving to electric, anything 500wH/mile and over is getting rather poor.
Having just mulled over which vehicle to take on a longer trip, I worked out that my petrol car only needed to beat 18mpg to work out cheaper than taking the electric car and utilising the fast charging network @ £75p/Kwh
Guess which one I took?
Two trails of thought, MPG based on the literal number vs the MPG vs the performance you're getting.
For example I got 26mpg from my CLS63 which I don't think is bad for just over 500bhp. Yet my other half's old SL350 made about 270bhp and didn't do any better, probably worse most of the time from the 3.5 V6. The SL didn't go quick enough to warrant the MPG. But the CLS barely goes over 20mpg most of the time.
I'd say for day to day use, under 30mpg isn't really great. I bought a Saab with a twin turbo diesel engine and can't believe it gives a genuine 60mpg on a run and still goes really well.
In conclusion, sub 30mpg for daily driving and over 50mpg impresses me haha
For example I got 26mpg from my CLS63 which I don't think is bad for just over 500bhp. Yet my other half's old SL350 made about 270bhp and didn't do any better, probably worse most of the time from the 3.5 V6. The SL didn't go quick enough to warrant the MPG. But the CLS barely goes over 20mpg most of the time.
I'd say for day to day use, under 30mpg isn't really great. I bought a Saab with a twin turbo diesel engine and can't believe it gives a genuine 60mpg on a run and still goes really well.
In conclusion, sub 30mpg for daily driving and over 50mpg impresses me haha
My current car (Cayman) is my lowest MPG car I've had, but I bought it during the first lockdown, and since then we're still only in the office 2 days per week, so my annual mileage is roughly 5000, making the 28 MPG average kinda balance out against my previous company car that averaged 40..
So as others have said I only really consider the actual mileage covered and weigh up the cost of fuel against that..
Currently my fuel costs roughly £1300/year (using on Premium).. A full week commuting would more than double that, so would become a consideration..
So as others have said I only really consider the actual mileage covered and weigh up the cost of fuel against that..
Currently my fuel costs roughly £1300/year (using on Premium).. A full week commuting would more than double that, so would become a consideration..
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