What do people mean when they say a car "handles well"
Discussion
Imho most people (i.e. non-car people) think lots of grip is good handling, i.e. they can throw it round a roundabout at modest pace and not feel it starting to move about.
Personally I don't care about grip levels, good handling to me is being able to exploit whatever grip there is in a way that inspires confidence - good handling is a chassis which is fairly neutral but doesn't snap too much into under or oversteer, but builds whichever one relatively controllably.
Personally I don't care about grip levels, good handling to me is being able to exploit whatever grip there is in a way that inspires confidence - good handling is a chassis which is fairly neutral but doesn't snap too much into under or oversteer, but builds whichever one relatively controllably.
It's pretty subjective as how good something handles is I would say what you're comparing to.
Something can handle well but be a bit numb and other cars may not be as capable but more responsive and easier to throw around even if they don't go as quick but feel like they handle brilliantly.
Grip is one thing, my S Class had tonnes of grip from big wheels but still felt like a boat changing direction. By contrast my CL despite being based on the same platform handles much better but has more clever suspension which certainly feels like it offsets the weight. It handles great, for that kind of car.
Really subjective from my experience.
Something can handle well but be a bit numb and other cars may not be as capable but more responsive and easier to throw around even if they don't go as quick but feel like they handle brilliantly.
Grip is one thing, my S Class had tonnes of grip from big wheels but still felt like a boat changing direction. By contrast my CL despite being based on the same platform handles much better but has more clever suspension which certainly feels like it offsets the weight. It handles great, for that kind of car.
Really subjective from my experience.
kambites said:
"Good handling" is subjective.
There are objective elements of it, but how they combine to create a single metric of "this car handles well" is deeply subjective.
^^^ This.There are objective elements of it, but how they combine to create a single metric of "this car handles well" is deeply subjective.
For me, the most important factors are that:
- It shouldn't understeer or oversteer excessively below the limit.
- It should behave predictably at the limit (no sudden transition from understeer to oversteer, or vice versa)
- The steering should offer sufficient feel that you are confident of how much grip you have.
- Turn-in should be positive and predictable.
- It should respond predictably to throttle and brake inputs, mid-corner (although with mid- or rear- engined cars, the 'predictable' response to braking mid corner might be that it always spits you off the road backwards
).
Edited by Equus on Wednesday 5th July 18:14
That's an interesting question. I've used the phrase a lot but it's the first time I've thought what I really mean by it.
Like people have already posted, it's not road holding.
I don't drive 'on the limit' so it's not about how the car behaves when it loses grip.
I *think* in my case I mean how balanced the car feels (ie, not nose heavy), the extent to which I can feel the contact with the road and how 'flat' it is when cornering (is not rolling).
I had an old Mazda 323 which was much better on those counts than a recent Pilot GTi.
Like people have already posted, it's not road holding.
I don't drive 'on the limit' so it's not about how the car behaves when it loses grip.
I *think* in my case I mean how balanced the car feels (ie, not nose heavy), the extent to which I can feel the contact with the road and how 'flat' it is when cornering (is not rolling).
I had an old Mazda 323 which was much better on those counts than a recent Pilot GTi.
Drive a different car how you normally drive your car, that should answer your question.
IMHO when I say a car handles well I expect responsive steering with good feedback, I expect good levels of grip with little oversteer or understeer and I expect to be able to push on and feel confident that the car isn't going to suddenly kill me.
IMHO when I say a car handles well I expect responsive steering with good feedback, I expect good levels of grip with little oversteer or understeer and I expect to be able to push on and feel confident that the car isn't going to suddenly kill me.
You have a conversation with a good handling car. You give orders to one with lots of grip, but poor handling. It then disagrees with you suddenly when it doesn't like the order. You then have to be pretty persuasive, pretty quickly with your next set of orders. Meanwhile the driver of the good handing car is still enjoying their conversation, regardless whether their grip has run out or not.
biggbn said:
Countdown said:
Responds quickly to steering inputs
Minimal body roll
Negligible understeer
Isn't that grip? Minimal body roll
Negligible understeer
Erm... no?You might characterise understeer as too little front-end grip relative to rear (though more correctly its a larger front slip angle), but none of them are necessarily an indicator of ultimate overall grip.
Equus said:
biggbn said:
Countdown said:
Responds quickly to steering inputs
Minimal body roll
Negligible understeer
Isn't that grip? Minimal body roll
Negligible understeer
Erm... no?You might characterise understeer as too little front-end grip relative to rear (though more correctly its a larger front slip angle), but none of them are necessarily an indicator of ultimate overall grip.
Edit, I don't buy all this slip angle tech talk, it's what end hits the hedge first
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