Can tyres be too good?

[rotaryjam]

We all know tyres can make a massive difference to the level of grip a car has.

I've been thinking recently that modern tyres are actually making cars dull!

Case in point I had an RX7 with some average tyres on and it was great, you had just the right amount of slip when you wanted some RWD fun. I switched to sports/perfect tyres and it make the handling completely inert, no more slidey fun.

Another example my current car is a BMW 135i with 340bhp, I was expecting it to be a fun car that could do a little skid if I wanted to be unruly - nope, nothing! I can barely get the traction control to come on in the wet! Again, its got decent tyres on - Michelin Pilot Sport something's.

So I really think that tyres are now so good it's actually making cars a bit boring to drive

[Unreal]

rotaryjam said:

We all know tyres can make a massive difference to the level of grip a car has.

I've been thinking recently that modern tyres are actually making cars dull!

Case in point I had an RX7 with some average tyres on and it was great, you had just the right amount of slip when you wanted some RWD fun. I switched to sports/perfect tyres and it make the handling completely inert, no more slidey fun.

Another example my current car is a BMW 135i with 340bhp, I was expecting it to be a fun car that could do a little skid if I wanted to be unruly - nope, nothing! I can barely get the traction control to come on in the wet! Again, its got decent tyres on - Michelin Pilot Sport something's.

So I really think that tyres are now so good it's actually making cars a bit boring to drive

Change your tyres then.

[ingenieur]

Naa... I think having tyres that are more resistant to blowing out at speed on the motorway and maintaining better control if they do. Tyres which help you to stop in a shorter distance if your intentional slip goes wrong. These things are all more important than making a car fun by having less grip.

[DaveH23]

You've put tyres specifically designed to give better grip on your car and you're complaining that they offer too much grip?

[T1berious]

ingenieur said:

Naa... I think having tyres that are more resistant to blowing out at speed on the motorway and maintaining better control if they do. Tyres which help you to stop in a shorter distance if your intentional slip goes wrong. These things are all more important than making a car fun by having less grip.

^This^

For 99% of drivers Tyres are a "meh" purchase, they totally oblivious to the obvious like the tyres fitted are better in the summer and much much worse in the wet or colder conditions.

Everyone's taste is different and tyre manufacturers are doing a brilliant job at making cars generally safer in most conditions.

(over winter I park up the fun car as its tyres aren't great in rubbish conditions)

[brillomaster]

i'd kinda agree... my old track car was a lot less 'fun' after i swapped the mismatched part worn tyres it was running to some decent trackday tyres.
sure, it was a lot faster round a lap, but the fun factor of having an old rear wheel drive BMW was lost somewhat.

i will also add that i had a car that steered and handled a lot nicer on narrower tyres than on the sporty wider wheels and tyres, even though the sporty setup would have been faster overall, it was a more enjoyable car to drive on the narrower tyres.

[Bobupndown]

Get a set of part worn 'dye yungs' on it and normal service will be resumed.

[kambites]

I think it's probably better to put narrower tyres on a car than harder, less grippy ones if you want playfulness.

[Bill]

Bobupndown said:

Get a set of part worn 'dye yungs' on it and normal service will be resumed.

TBF he doesn't need a full set.

[Krikkit]

Put cheaper tyres on the rear - I did that with my old E46 compact. Michelin PS4 on the front, "Kormoran" on the rear which were actually very good for cheap tyres (quiet, sensible grip drop-off, good in wet weather)

[GroundEffect]

Why do you think Toyota put Prius tyres on the GT86.

[Dog Star]

After the weather I drove in yesterday over the M62 I’ll have as much ch grip and safety as possible, tyvm.

Anyone who thinks they need “less grip” so that they can have “fun”, drift the car or wants to correct slides with a dab of oppo or some similar cringeworthy ste shouldn’t be on the public road, and I sure don’t want to share it with them.

[sideways man]

Although I want my car to have a playful rear end (ooh er missus), I also want it to stop ASAP in any emergency.

[BoRED S2upid]

Can’t you turn the traction control off to have more fun? I only turn mine on in the winter.

[thatsprettyshady]

My LSD in the 135i is there? How much of a skid were you expecting without one of those?

[KTMsm]

rotaryjam said:

We all know tyres can make a massive difference to the level of grip a car has.

I've been thinking recently that modern tyres are actually making cars dull!

It's not just that the tyres have much more grip - it's the wheel and tyre sizes

195/50/15 used to be the most common performance tyre !

Hardly anything was bigger than 245 16

I had a standard 200SX it was a great drive on 205/55/16 you could feel what was going on and it had a great balance of grip that was easy to exceed and control

I upgraded the wheels and tyres - it killed the handling - it looked better & had more grip but it had no feel or delicacy - I swapped them back

I feel sorry for people who didn't get to experience 90's cars, the modern ones aren't much fun IME

Edited by KTMsm on Monday 24th July 10:11

[akirk]

Dog Star said:

After the weather I drove in yesterday over the M62 I’ll have as much ch grip and safety as possible, tyvm.

Anyone who thinks they need “less grip” so that they can have “fun”, drift the car or wants to correct slides with a dab of oppo or some similar cringeworthy ste shouldn’t be on the public road, and I sure don’t want to share it with them.

This.

I love driving, love a car which handles well - but anyone who thinks that current roads are a suitable playground for a bit of 'sliding fun' should probably have their driving licence removed! I took the f-type down to Cornwall 10 days ago in torrential rain - horrible driving conditions and no fun at all - average speed on the motorway was < 50mph (though that didn't stop the big 4x4s heading past in the outside lane at 80-90+!)

a day at Brooklands or on an airfield or somewhere private - awesome fun - the first time I drifted a full circle and had the car balanced so it just kept going round was a revelation in understanding the car / balance / forces / etc. - but totally inappropriate to learn or practice that on a public road.

[KTMsm]

akirk said:

Dog Star said:

After the weather I drove in yesterday over the M62 I’ll have as much ch grip and safety as possible, tyvm.

Anyone who thinks they need “less grip” so that they can have “fun”, drift the car or wants to correct slides with a dab of oppo or some similar cringeworthy ste shouldn’t be on the public road, and I sure don’t want to share it with them.

This.

I love driving, love a car which handles well - but anyone who thinks that current roads are a suitable playground for a bit of 'sliding fun' should probably have their driving licence removed! I took the f-type down to Cornwall 10 days ago in torrential rain - horrible driving conditions and no fun at all - average speed on the motorway was < 50mph (though that didn't stop the big 4x4s heading past in the outside lane at 80-90+!)

a day at Brooklands or on an airfield or somewhere private - awesome fun - the first time I drifted a full circle and had the car balanced so it just kept going round was a revelation in understanding the car / balance / forces / etc. - but totally inappropriate to learn or practice that on a public road.

So you want as much grip as possible... and then cite driving in a straight line needing maximum aquaplaning resistance

Which would be from a narrow tyre with deep tread

As opposed to a maximum grip tyre which would be wide with minimal tread

[bumskins]

KTMsm said:

I had a standard 200SX it was a great drive on 205/55/16 you could feel what was going on and it had a great balance of grip that was easy to exceed and control

I upgraded the wheels and tyres - it killed the handling - it looked better & had more grip but it had no feel or delicacy - I swapped them back

I feel sorry for people who didn't get to experience 90's cars, the modern ones aren't much fun IME

Edited by KTMsm on Monday 24th July 10:11

Agreed re: 90s cars, thought Noriyaro hit the nail on the head with "To be fair, if you can't drift an 'S body' then you might as well stop trying", great blend of performance, grip and balance. Shame the SR20DETT has all the allure to me of a neolithic monument, can see why people engine swap them.

[akirk]

KTMsm said:

akirk said:

Dog Star said:

After the weather I drove in yesterday over the M62 I’ll have as much ch grip and safety as possible, tyvm.

Anyone who thinks they need “less grip” so that they can have “fun”, drift the car or wants to correct slides with a dab of oppo or some similar cringeworthy ste shouldn’t be on the public road, and I sure don’t want to share it with them.

This.

I love driving, love a car which handles well - but anyone who thinks that current roads are a suitable playground for a bit of 'sliding fun' should probably have their driving licence removed! I took the f-type down to Cornwall 10 days ago in torrential rain - horrible driving conditions and no fun at all - average speed on the motorway was < 50mph (though that didn't stop the big 4x4s heading past in the outside lane at 80-90+!)

a day at Brooklands or on an airfield or somewhere private - awesome fun - the first time I drifted a full circle and had the car balanced so it just kept going round was a revelation in understanding the car / balance / forces / etc. - but totally inappropriate to learn or practice that on a public road.

So you want as much grip as possible... and then cite driving in a straight line needing maximum aquaplaning resistance

Which would be from a narrow tyre with deep tread

As opposed to a maximum grip tyre which would be wide with minimal tread

no - I would want a tyre most suited to sensible driving on British roads - that will always be a compromise - but what you don't do is go for a tyre which is deliberately worse in order to drive in a way which is inappropriate on a public road... you then adapt your driving for edge conditions which are outside the norm for the tyres you have - rather than going out and driving like an idiot

and there are plenty of good tyres out there which will handle rain and give good grip in the dry - possibly not tyres you would chose if your idea of fun is killing others by leaving roundabouts sideways...