Profitable gaps in the market
Discussion
Reckon there are plenty of older folk that aren't accustomed to touchscreens but would suit small range EVs with low maintenance. Thinking a Honda Jazz style EV with large, ready to use control functions. Perhaps even with a mock gearstick and clutch... Bear with me here... to mimic many years of driving manuals.
What other gaps in the market seem to exist currently? They need to be profitable, not just niche stuff we'd like to drive so ruling out V10 Mx5 finals.
What other gaps in the market seem to exist currently? They need to be profitable, not just niche stuff we'd like to drive so ruling out V10 Mx5 finals.
I think you are onto something with the 'no touchscreen' part, but the fake clutch pedal is just a nonsense.
I always think the 'practical sportscar/coupe' niche is underserved, Perhaps only the Audi TT sits in it. If the GT86 had a hatchback rather than a tiny saloon type opening it would be a much more usable car. Same with a BMW 4-series or an Audi A5 - they do a 2,4 or 5 door but not a 3dr.
Such a car would be perfect for those of us who don't often carry multiple passengers but often have larger items to transport, and want something more interesting or grown-up than a hot hatch.
I always think the 'practical sportscar/coupe' niche is underserved, Perhaps only the Audi TT sits in it. If the GT86 had a hatchback rather than a tiny saloon type opening it would be a much more usable car. Same with a BMW 4-series or an Audi A5 - they do a 2,4 or 5 door but not a 3dr.
Such a car would be perfect for those of us who don't often carry multiple passengers but often have larger items to transport, and want something more interesting or grown-up than a hot hatch.
Truckosaurus said:
I always think the 'practical sportscar/coupe' niche is underserved, Perhaps only the Audi TT sits in it. If the GT86 had a hatchback rather than a tiny saloon type opening it would be a much more usable car. Same with a BMW 4-series or an Audi A5 - they do a 2,4 or 5 door but not a 3dr.
This used to be a well-served market which has died out fairly recently, so presumably it ceased to be profitable. I'm pretty sure the Audi TT has been discontinued now, or is about to be.
People only want SUVs now, and small cars are too expensive to manufacture and there is no profit in them due to the amount of safety features required by law.
People love as much gadgety crap in their cars as possible. You only have to watch a car review to find more time is spent explaining how the car integrates with your phone as opposed to what it is like to drive. Most people find driving a chore and have no idea what a good or bad car is like to drive. They just want to stick in in drive and sit up as high as possible so they can lord it over other drivers and force their way out of junction and roundabouts.
People cannot be separated from their phone for more than a minute which is why a lot of people seem to drive with one eye on the road and one eye on their phone. This is the reason we need lane departure and automatic breaking by law as a vast majority of people are paying no interest to what they are doing. That is before we get onto the amount of people who are driving spaced off theirs tits on Alcohol, Cannabis, Cocaine, anti depressants or strong prescription opioid pain killers.
There are no gaps, the gaps such as convertibles, sports cars, coupes etc. are all closing as nobody wants to buy them.
People love as much gadgety crap in their cars as possible. You only have to watch a car review to find more time is spent explaining how the car integrates with your phone as opposed to what it is like to drive. Most people find driving a chore and have no idea what a good or bad car is like to drive. They just want to stick in in drive and sit up as high as possible so they can lord it over other drivers and force their way out of junction and roundabouts.
People cannot be separated from their phone for more than a minute which is why a lot of people seem to drive with one eye on the road and one eye on their phone. This is the reason we need lane departure and automatic breaking by law as a vast majority of people are paying no interest to what they are doing. That is before we get onto the amount of people who are driving spaced off theirs tits on Alcohol, Cannabis, Cocaine, anti depressants or strong prescription opioid pain killers.
There are no gaps, the gaps such as convertibles, sports cars, coupes etc. are all closing as nobody wants to buy them.
Not sure many people buy new cars after the age of 75, and really most 70 years olds are pretty used to touch screens, we've been using them for a long time now. My 17 year old Lexus has one. Not sure there is such a big market for these types of cars. Also think about all those people involved in the early development of touch screens they are now all retiring, and will be these customers in a few years time. I was one of the younger ones in the early days of touch screens and I'm now 60. Bigger controls / buttons may be useful but then you don't mess with most of the controls once you have set them.
kambites said:
[practical coupes] used to be a well-served market which has died out fairly recently, so presumably it ceased to be profitable....
I blame the Americans. As I mentioned there's plenty of coupes they just all are 'saloon' rear ends. BMW daren't even call the Mini a hatchback in the American market, it is a 'hardtop', as it is considered the lowest end bodystyle on the market.
GroundEffect said:
Small cars aren't profitable.
Not quite true, small cars can be profitable, just not as profitable as larger cars.A number of manufacturers have released new generation small cars in the UK and more are planned.
On the continent the top 10 selling cars list has a number of super minis included. Asia still has a huge demand for small cars
There are still enough people out there that don't require large cars to maintain enough of a market for some manufacturers to continue, for now at least.
I think Honda would just settle for a Jazz that people want to buy - around me you can't move far without seeing a second gen (07-13), a few third gen, virtually no fourth gen which has been on sale for a few years now. Maybe the older ones are just so good that people don't see the point in spending money on a newer one.
The problem with all these threads is people who don't buy new cars bemoaning that there's no new cars that they like, for them to (not) buy. Models and whole categories get killed off because people aren't walking into a dealership and buying them.
The problem with all these threads is people who don't buy new cars bemoaning that there's no new cars that they like, for them to (not) buy. Models and whole categories get killed off because people aren't walking into a dealership and buying them.
sjg said:
I think Honda would just settle for a Jazz that people want to buy - around me you can't move far without seeing a second gen (07-13), a few third gen, virtually no fourth gen which has been on sale for a few years now. Maybe the older ones are just so good that people don't see the point in spending money on a newer one.
The problem with all these threads is people who don't buy new cars bemoaning that there's no new cars that they like, for them to (not) buy. Models and whole categories get killed off because people aren't walking into a dealership and buying them.
I bet a few have jumped to Korean cars, they massively outsell Honda now.The problem with all these threads is people who don't buy new cars bemoaning that there's no new cars that they like, for them to (not) buy. Models and whole categories get killed off because people aren't walking into a dealership and buying them.
Silvanus said:
On the continent the top 10 selling cars list has a number of super minis included. Asia still has a huge demand for small cars
I was in Lanzarote a few months ago and the thing that immediately struck me was the complete absence of SUVs. The majority of the cars were cheap, small hatchbacks such as Citroens, Renault, Dacia, Seat etc. German cars were definitely in the minority.Come back to the UK and every other car is some monstrous two tonne+ German SUV which on out tiny, crowded roads is the motoring equivalent of owning a Bully XL dog.
There might be a gap for more extremely small electric cars that aren't strictly speaking cars at all, i.e. like the Citroen Ami but a bit better.
The Twizy got it right in terms of driving well enough, but the lack of windows meant it was really just an expensive electric scooter which didn't fall over, rather than a car you can drive without wearing protective clothing.
The other gap I think would be for some ordinary (i.e. not premium) cars with properly comfortable seats and soft suspension. Only really Citroen do that at the moment, and many people avoid those because of how they look and their poor reputation for reliability. If someone like Toyota or Hyundai fitted Citroen type seats and softened up the ride a bit, I think they'd do really well.
The Twizy got it right in terms of driving well enough, but the lack of windows meant it was really just an expensive electric scooter which didn't fall over, rather than a car you can drive without wearing protective clothing.
The other gap I think would be for some ordinary (i.e. not premium) cars with properly comfortable seats and soft suspension. Only really Citroen do that at the moment, and many people avoid those because of how they look and their poor reputation for reliability. If someone like Toyota or Hyundai fitted Citroen type seats and softened up the ride a bit, I think they'd do really well.
Silvanus said:
GroundEffect said:
Small cars aren't profitable.
Not quite true, small cars can be profitable, just not as profitable as larger cars.A number of manufacturers have released new generation small cars in the UK and more are planned.
What I'm missing is is the affordable RWD sports car (coupe). However those were never profitable.
captain_cynic said:
What I'm missing is is the affordable RWD sports car (coupe). However those were never profitable.
Porsche seem to manage to make a profit on the Cayman and 911. There's quite a few others around as well although they may not be directly profitable - the Toyota Supra and GR86, Lotus Emira, Mustang, etc. mikeyr said:
Perhaps even with a mock gearstick and clutch... Bear with me here... to mimic many years of driving manuals.
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My 81 y/o Mum finally bought her first auto 3 years ago. She flatly refused before as she found it hard to learn to drive in a manual car so wasn't going to give it up easily but a ropey left ankle got to her in the end.
I think even a polite older lady would WTF at the mock gearstick idea
kambites said:
Porsche seem to manage to make a profit on the Cayman and 911. There's quite a few others around as well although they may not be directly profitable - the Toyota Supra and GR86, Lotus Emira, Mustang, etc.
Thats why I said affordable. The Cayman starts at £53,500 and especially this day and age, youll never get one at list price. I'm thinking more like the 2010s Toyota 86, it only cost a bit more than a hatchback.
captain_cynic said:
kambites said:
Porsche seem to manage to make a profit on the Cayman and 911. There's quite a few others around as well although they may not be directly profitable - the Toyota Supra and GR86, Lotus Emira, Mustang, etc.
Thats why I said affordable. The Cayman starts at £53,500 and especially this day and age, youll never get one at list price. I'm thinking more like the 2010s Toyota 86, it only cost a bit more than a hatchback.
You've still got the GR86 anyway (which is probably cheaper in real terms than the GT86 was when it was released). I guess the problem is the cost of developing a bespoke RWD platform for what would be a very niche car.
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