RE: Hands-free 7 Series will let owners watch vid
RE: Hands-free 7 Series will let owners watch vid
Friday 10th November 2023

Hands-free 7 Series will let owners watch vid

BMW says the future has arrived - from next year its Level 3 autonomous driving tech will become a reality


Probably this makes us sound old, but from where PH sits the concept of fully autonomous driving still belongs to the Johnny Cab in Total Recall or the foam-fillable cars in Demolition Man. It hasn’t helped, of course, that various well-funded development programmes - several run by Silicon Valley firms - have come a cropper, some in court. But rest assured ‘highly automated’ driving on motorways is absolutely on its way. Earlier this year, Ford introduced a proper hands-off system with its subscription-based BlueCruise tech; now BMW says it will go one better with the new 7 Series. 

Why one better? Well, The Ford option was considered Level 2 on the Beaufort scale (not its actual name) of what it can actually do - and therefore allow you to do. So while it allows you to take your hands off the wheel, you still need to pay attention to what’s happening in case human intervention is required. The BMW Personal Pilot L3 goes one better: its Level 3 capability means that drivers are okay to ‘temporarily divert their attention away from the road’ and ‘redirect their focus to other in-vehicle activities’. Legally. And even at night, too. 

Naturally, there are some conditions. For one thing, it will only let you concentrate on something else while travelling at speeds of up to 37mph, and only on motorways with ‘structurally separated carriageways’ (i.e. those with barriers). But if you’re in slow-moving traffic on the M25, you’re quids in. And when BMW says ‘other activities’ it really does mean stuff that requires your full attention. Not only will you be able to use its existing digital services for ‘streaming videos from various providers’ you will also be able to ‘edit emails’ and the like, while the car takes care of speed, direction changes, lane positioning and distance to the vehicle ahead. 

Unsurprisingly, it achieves this through a lot of pre-existing tech - expect to find sophisticated sensors everywhere, including a massive Lidar affair above the grille and inside to see what you’re up to - and what BMW describes as ‘extremely accurate GPS location-finding’. In fact, it’s the latter that is said to make up a big part of the one-off 6,000 euro price in Germany, where it will be offered as an option on the 7 Series from March next year. No word on a price in the UK just yet, but with UK law now open to the concept, Personal Pilot is tipped to cross the channel later in 2024. The future is (nearly) now. 


Author
Discussion

86wasagoodyear

Original Poster:

988 posts

126 months

Friday 10th November 2023
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What could possibly go wrong ? Popcorn at the ready for 7ers causing rear-end collisions.

SDK

3,553 posts

283 months

Friday 10th November 2023
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86wasagoodyear said:
What could possibly go wrong ? Popcorn at the ready for 7ers causing rear-end collisions.
These systems work very well - for driving in a straight line keeping up with traffic and through stop/start traffic it's likely safer than the driver being in control.

Silvanus

6,913 posts

53 months

Friday 10th November 2023
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No thanks, call me old fashioned but I prefer analogue driving where I'm in control.

LucyP

1,773 posts

89 months

Friday 10th November 2023
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But does the law allow it yet? And has anyone found a car with ACC or lane keeping or autonomous braking that works properly yet? Has anyone even found a car that put the auto headlights and wipers on or off when you would?

C5_Steve

8,948 posts

133 months

Friday 10th November 2023
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When the article says that UK law is open to the concept, does that mean there will be a change in law to allow drivers to do other things whilst Auto Pilot is engaged? Would require quite a shake up to make this a thing and I'm not quite sure how it then gets enforced......

Quite a ways away from that I think but with the recent investment in AI cameras to catch people doing other things at the wheel seems as if we're moving in two opposite directions at the same time.

SDK

3,553 posts

283 months

Friday 10th November 2023
quotequote all
LucyP said:
But does the law allow it yet? And has anyone found a car with ACC or lane keeping or autonomous braking that works properly yet? Has anyone even found a car that put the auto headlights and wipers on or off when you would?
Yep - the systems in my Polestar 2 have worked well over the last 3 years.
I could pretty much be asleep on the motorway and the car would manage perfectly fine - this makes driving through stop/start motorway traffic very relaxing, vs having to focus on braking and clutch biggrin

-> Auto wipers - perfect
-> Lights : Matrix lights - the best ever !

Except maybe the rear scanning detection is a bit too sensitive - when reversing it will abruptly stop the car for people/kerbs/cars which are far away and no risk.


Edited by SDK on Friday 10th November 11:16

bobj42

111 posts

41 months

Friday 10th November 2023
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set cruise control to 37mph and watch movie, preferably in the middle lane.

C5_Steve

8,948 posts

133 months

Friday 10th November 2023
quotequote all
LucyP said:
But does the law allow it yet? And has anyone found a car with ACC or lane keeping or autonomous braking that works properly yet? Has anyone even found a car that put the auto headlights and wipers on or off when you would?
Yeah I believe the Merc system was officially signed off in Germany as the first level 3 system to be allowed in Europe. There are several systems that are way ahead of Tesla now.

FourWheelDrift

92,311 posts

314 months

Friday 10th November 2023
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Does this autonomous BMW driving system actually use the indicators? That would be a step up from humans.

TheOctaneAddict

1,260 posts

77 months

Friday 10th November 2023
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Utterly stupid, I love that auto makers have already strayed away from using autonomous tech for safety and have pivoted straight to the gimmick factor.

From the press release:

"In a BMW 7 Series with the BMW Personal Pilot L3 activated, customers will be able to edit e-mails, for example, or engage more deeply in telephone calls while travelling at up to 60 km/h (37 mph). They can also use digital services for e.g. streaming videos from various providers on the central display during a journey. This makes the new BMW Personal Pilot L3 the ideal solution for making good use of time spent in slow-moving traffic or tailbacks during daily motorway commutes."

So we're not focusing on safety, but look! You can watch netflix!



RacerMike

4,943 posts

241 months

Friday 10th November 2023
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SDK said:
LucyP said:
But does the law allow it yet? And has anyone found a car with ACC or lane keeping or autonomous braking that works properly yet? Has anyone even found a car that put the auto headlights and wipers on or off when you would?
Yep - the systems in my Polestar 2 have worked well over the last 3 years.
I could pretty much be asleep on the motorway and the car would manage perfectly fine - this makes driving through stop/start motorway traffic very relaxing, vs having to focus on braking and clutch biggrin

-> Auto wipers - perfect
-> Lights : Matrix lights - the best ever !

Except maybe the rear scanning detection is a bit too sensitive - when reversing it will abruptly stop the car for people/kerbs/cars which are far away and no risk.


Edited by SDK on Friday 10th November 11:16
And unsurprisingly the legislation around this is hugely complicated and very difficult to pass/approve. This is not Tesla 'we taught the car how to drive via AI and it pretty much works 99% of the time'. This is a 'we've worked with the legislative bodies, demonstrated the functional safety meets the requirements outlined for this type of use case and we've demonstrated that there is significant redundancy to make sure the possibility of an accident is so tiny it's not an issue'.

There's a huge amount of complicated law and testing around any self driving systems for good reason, and no manufacturer in europe (and increasingly now in the US) can release any self driving tech without first demonstrating very robuslty that it works flawlessly all the time.

TryingHard

445 posts

261 months

Friday 10th November 2023
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As above interested in legal changes will be implemented but I'm all in favour of this.

Auto-cruise and lane keep assist in todays cars work well and particularly in traffic jams where you really don't have any inputs to do.

In terms of other things I wonder whether the laws around mobile use will also be changed. If I can watch a movie/edit emails will doing that on a mobile hand held device also be allowed?

Overall I think the technology is there, its just whether the law can keep up.

LotusOmega375D

9,369 posts

183 months

Friday 10th November 2023
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bobj42 said:
set cruise control to 37mph and watch movie, preferably in the middle lane.
Haha, yes that looks like what BMW is recommending, judging by these press photos. Should make owners very popular on sections of derestricted Autobahn….

fantheman80

2,634 posts

79 months

Friday 10th November 2023
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they way many chauffer or uber X pilots of BMW 7 series drive on my M25 commute I'd rather they sit in the middle lane watching repeats of Love Island...but then they'd be even later for their pick ups

MrGeoff

778 posts

202 months

Friday 10th November 2023
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Having used the current autonomous systems in BMW recently they are actually really good and on a motorway makes a lot of sense as distances are maintained, speed is maintained, it makes driving far more relaxing and should in theory make motorways more efficient. I don't see the need to watch a film whilst driving, it would feel a little alien to me. I'm sure when the current generation come through and start learning to drive then it will seem familiar to them, at the end of the day my kids sit in the back of the car watching whatever rubbish Youtube has to offer and that's something I never had as a kid to temper my boredom. So surely watching the latest unboxing of some utter rubbish, whilst in the drivers seat, should come second nature to them when sitting at 50mph on a smart motorway.

SpadeBrigade

859 posts

169 months

Friday 10th November 2023
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The idea of watching anything on a screen in a moving car already makes me feel sick. Not for me. I like simple dials and buttons. But then I think the motorcar peaked in the mid 2000’s and it’s been downwards ever since.

GianiCakes

689 posts

103 months

Friday 10th November 2023
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The ACC on my 5 series always worked well for what it was claimed to do. The supposedly autonomous driving system on my Tesla S is dangerously bad. It doesn’t even work well as ACC. Hopefully they won’t approve that any time soon and I do question how they are able to describe it the way they do when charging a large amount of extra money for it.

J4CKO

46,868 posts

230 months

Friday 10th November 2023
quotequote all
Silvanus said:
No thanks, call me old fashioned but I prefer analogue driving where I'm in control.
Do you never think, say when its raining and you are in traffic on the M6 with 110 miles to go that it would be good to hand over to the car to do its thing ?

I dont think the tech is anywhere near yet but its coming, I have spoken to folk who I really think should never been granted a license and they wouldnt trust it, despite having had several incidents themselves.

I think we will always have accidents but surely, if the automation can cut them down to a minimum then its worth having ?

I would be happy to have a second pair of unblinking eyes that will perhaps bail me out if I get it wrong, and we all have the capacity to get it wrong. I think we maybe expect it will be the end of driving but I dont think it will be, more about systems that keep a watching brief when you are in control, and can take over fully when you are tired, bored etc.

Its funny though, there was a crash of an autonomous car testing in the States where a woman was killed, which was horrific, and people call to ban all autonomous systems in cars and stop development, yet 42,795 people died on the roads in the US last year. 1 death from autonomous vehicle is unacceptable, but 40 odd thousand due to human drivers is completely fine ?

We believe we are infallible, we arent, these systems arent much good yet but will be, and be better than us but we are terrified that there may be accidents, er, there are already ?




Pontus88

19 posts

54 months

Friday 10th November 2023
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I must be old too. It worries me that we feel the need to devolve 100% of our attention to a machine so we can watch a video or edit an email. I am sure the technology will be relatively fail safe at one point, but what is need?

It seems inevitable, but right now I’d prefer to be present in the task/situation I am in. I think good/safe driving is being aware of surroundings and being perceptive of what could happen down the road. So at the point a machine hands back control how much situational awareness do you have?

BrettMRC

6,020 posts

190 months

Friday 10th November 2023
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I fondly recall the "driving assistant professional" feature in my X5 attempting to pitch me into a roll on the M27 a couple of years ago. yikes

Can't wait to see what this is capable of.