HELP insurance trying to cat b my Porsche 924

[Madmanzippy]

Hi all, my Son has crashed his 924 and the assessment has come back as cat b. There's only damage to the front left quarter, as well as bonnet etc. To 99% of people it would be considered to be not worth it. However we have most parts already to repair. Also my Son works at a vehicle restorer and has a chassis machine etc and they can do the work there. However we need someone that can do an assessment with this in mind, rather than the £14k repair bill that the current assessor has estimated and thinks it is a pile of poo. The car is at asm salvage in Oxford. PLEASE HELP
Thanks

[MickyveloceClassic]

My understanding is that if it’s been assessed as a CAT B, then it can’t be put back on the road.
I’m not sure there is a right of appeal for this type of assessment, but I can’t see another assessor overturning a Cat B assessment- for fear of future litigation.

Parts from a Cat B can be used on another 924, but your car is dead I’m afraid.
Even if you fixed it, insurance is not going to be easy to find.

[Madmanzippy]

I understand about the rules around cat b. However, a damaged front chassis arm and the rest replacable parts should not be cat b. When looking at the codes of practice for assessment, it states that classic and historic registered vehicles fall outside of the standard rules. Hence why I am looking for someone that will understand about such vehicles. For probably your average assessor they would see a paint faded, a few odd dents, torn seats etc plus the damage and call it end of life. For a specialist they know what it is about. Where my Son works, they have literally built vehicles that you would not recognise as a vehicle other than maybe a wheel or two, gearbox and motor. However these are early and rare vehicles for a collector. The right people for the right job is what I am trying to say really

Edited by Madmanzippy on Tuesday 6th February 20:41

[Ffordd Ar Gau]

If the car is already with the salvage company, then I think your ship has sailed…

Once the category is assigned, then it’s not going to be coming off, and in all likelihood will never be downgraded. Cat B and A cannot be returned to the road, and you cannot buy a Cat B from a salvage firm without a licence, e.g. if you are a licenced vehicle breakers/end of life facility.

The best chance you would’ve had was to have not let the insurance inspect the damage, if you had the intention of keeping and repairing the car. That’s a big decision to take though, e.g. you could have notified them of an accident (which you are obliged to do) but then not claimed (which you are not obliged to do). If you hand the car over to the insurance company as part of claiming for it’s damage, then you run the risk of the car being categorised, whether that be N or S (repairable) or B or A (not repairable).
If you look on salvage sites that auction off damaged cars, there’s a wide variation in damage in each category and across different ages of cars. It’s a bit of a farce, but that’s a different story.

Edited by Ffordd Ar Gau on Tuesday 6th February 20:41

[J4CKO]

What happens when its a vehicle with immense sentimental value ?

For example, my uncle posted on Facebook the other day that his car has been in the family on that date for sixty years.

So if a car like that gets bumped an assessor can decide its a Cat B and you could like never see it again and have no recourse or any chance to get it back ?

[MitchT]

Insurance companies don't care about sentiment.

If you have most of the parts and access to the skills and facilities then crack on and repair it yourself. Don't even get insurance involved.

[samoht]

Madmanzippy said:

I understand about the rules around cat b. However, a damaged front chassis arm and the rest replacable parts should not be cat b. When looking at the codes of practice for assessment, it states that classic and historic registered vehicles fall outside of the standard rules. Hence why I am looking for someone that will understand about such vehicles. For probably your average assessor they would see a paint faded, a few odd dents, torn seats etc plus the damage and call it end of life. For a specialist they know what it is about. Where my Son works, they have literally built vehicles that you would not recognise as a vehicle other than maybe a wheel or two, gearbox and motor. However these are early and rare vehicles for a collector. The right people for the right job is what I am trying to say really

Cat B does not mean "not worth repairing", it means "cannot safely be repaired". It isn't an economic judgment but a road safety one.

You could try telling the insurance co you believe they've made an error and it's safely repairable, see if they will reconsider. But with the chassis leg being distorted, it's possible that could've transferred load into the main structure of the car, so...

[Madmanzippy]

J4CKO said:

What happens when its a vehicle with immense sentimental value ?

For example, my uncle posted on Facebook the other day that his car has been in the family on that date for sixty years.

So if a car like that gets bumped an assessor can decide its a Cat B and you could like never see it again and have no recourse or any chance to get it back ?

From what I have seen the cat b cannot be retained is actually a grey area. My insurance this morning offered to get the claim settled and have the vehicle delivered back to me. I am assuming as it is on the v5 as an historic vehicle, therefore falls outside of the codes of practice (cop). Also remember the cop is an industry guide and is not law. I have had to fight the cop issue before (not to do with cars) and as long as you do your research and can quote certain regs and clauses in law, then they will listen. Otherwise I have an amazing insurance company that voluntarily listens. Highly unlikely though. Don't let them bully you. Honestly I have been to my Sons work, they literally have to make a chassis for vehicles like your uncles and hand make the panels.

[Madmanzippy]

Hi guys, thanks for your views and input. I think this is a subject like oil that there are many correct answers. With skills and care factor fast disappearing from this world is why i am hunting for a specialist. I am a stubborn Kiwi that is used to fixing everything and I have worked in the bodywork trade before so i understand how and what happens in an accident to a vehicle. I will research my rights and get legal advice if I have too.

I endeavour to give a detailed summary on the outcome.

[WPA]

If it has been assessed as a CAT B that is that, the damage to the chassis leg means they have deemed it as not being safe to repair.

You will not change that.

[brillomaster]

If your son crashed the car but works for a car restorer and has relevant parts to repair it, why on earth did you get insurance involved in the first place??? You must have known there was a huge likelihood it would be written off, were you hoping to get a payout, but then buy back a cat n car and repair it yourself?

Risky business if you ask me. Any Old car you had a sentimental attachment to, I'd do everything possible to keep it away from insurers.

[RD-1]

Can’t you just cancel the claim and go and get the car back?

No help now, but these type of vehicles need to be with specialist insurers.

Best of luck.

[Madmanzippy]

brillomaster said:

If your son crashed the car but works for a car restorer and has relevant parts to repair it, why on earth did you get insurance involved in the first place??? You must have known there was a huge likelihood it would be written off, were you hoping to get a payout, but then buy back a cat n car and repair it yourself?

Risky business if you ask me. Any Old car you had a sentimental attachment to, I'd do everything possible to keep it away from insurers.

We are new to all this as we moved from NZ 18months ago. We did really consider keeping it away from insurers, however the car took out a fence and gate. The owner of the land runs a day care there (I know, our Son was soooo lucky it was off season), so she needed everything to be sorted quickly otherwise she was going to go for loss of business etc. I did offer to do the repairs as I have done a few miles of fencing in NZ, however she was adament to get landscapers and fencers in. I could see where that was heading and thought the car would be the lesser of two evils. I thought it would be a cat s. I have shown the report and photos to someone from the club who is a classic car restorer and has a 924 himself and knows the cars well. He thinks it could possibly be cat N but understands if it was classed as cat s. All the panel lines are still good, even the gap between the door and front guard on the side that was hit is straight.

[Madmanzippy]

RD-1 said:

Can’t you just cancel the claim and go and get the car back?

No help now, but these type of vehicles need to be with specialist insurers.

Best of luck.

I think that as it has been assessed, it is too late. All salvage categories can be overturned as per the COP's. As for specialist insurers, I tried for litterally months and had brokers trying too. However, as we had only been in the country a short time, they either couldn't insure or it was £10k plus. Even insurance for just me in my 944 with 37 years driving experience and a UK licence since 2000, they said no.

[Madmanzippy]

Just to add. Had I had the chance to speak with the assessor prior to his visit then it would of been looked at differently. The get out clause here I am hoping is this from the COP's:
"It is recognised that some historic/ classic vehicles or vehicles of special interest may be repaired irrespective of extent of damage, providing it is safe to do so. In these cases the vehicle will fall outside the Code of Practice, which will not apply."

This is what I know classic car restorers can use to change a classification. Of course an additional inspection is required. You have to remember that classic cars can actually be easier to get replacement parts compared to a 10 year old vehicle.
We have all the measuring points to pinpoint any chassis damage and know that the assessor did not do any of that. We are fairly confident that it is the front sacrificial part (all well in front of any steering components) of the chassis is the only damage to it.

If this was a 2024 Porsche it would be cat s at worst. Age is irrelavent if you are working from a purely engineering point view and by the COP's that is how it is supposed to be.

Fingers crossed

[Madmanzippy]

• **UPDATE****

I have successfully managed to get it re categorized as a cat S. Having spoken to the engineer and explained the whole case he was sympathetic and then reviewed the vehicle with the information I gave him. He also said that they rarely get any info from the insurers. So it is basically a quick check and move on for them really. I know there is no serious damage other than the front leg as doors shut fine, windscreen is intact, and even on the side that took the hit has perfectly straight lines between panels other than a crunched up front of the guard and corner of bonnet. I had to prove a few other bits and as it is a classic Porsche, all parts are still available brand new.
Yes it has been a few weeks of hell trying to get this result, but I got there. It was more a case of being polite and explaining/showing that you know what you are talking about. You have to remember these guys are inspecting many cars a day, and more often than not, it is just a standard proceedure of "yep, it's f&*ked, next". I do think I was luck that I had an insurer that at least listened, although I have been doing all the phoning, chasing, talking.

So i would say, if you find yourself in this situation and are able to have a calm methodical approach and willing to battle for a while. You should get the result. This has been a 7 week battle for me, but I have the result I wanted.

Yep classic insurers would be the way to go in future. Just have to find out how long you have to be in the country for them to give a realistic quote.

[carinaman]

I am pleased the 924 has been saved and you've achieved a good outcome for your son.

[samoht]

Well done, it sounded like an uphill battle but it sounds like you focused on precisely the right point (the damage was in fact contained and car was in fact safely repairable) and got a result. Good luck getting the car sorted and back on the road.