Way to get UK traffic moving again?
Discussion
I regularly drive drive from Dubai to Abu Dhabi and back (just this weekend for the F1 which was fabulous by the way) and having seen this article, I was amused to think what the UK and the “brake” brigade would make of it.
As per the article, it’s a four lane highway, the two outer lanes have a minimum speed limit of 120kph (75 mph) and a max speed of 140kph (88 mph). The two inner lanes are for trucks, buses and slower moving traffic.
The two outer lanes work well, people stick to both the speed limits and the traffic flows fast and smooth. Never seen an accident on it.
The guy in the article was fined 8 times going to Abu Dhabi and back for driving at 70 mph in the outer two lanes.
https://www.cartoq.com/car-life/driver-fined-8-tim...
With all the MLM and dawdlers at 50 - 60 clogging up the outside lanes of UK motorways, wouldn’t it be great to have a minimum of, say, 60 mph and a maximum of 80 mph in the two outer lanes. All the cameras that are installed could issue fines both ways: under 60 and over 80.
Clearly the variable limits could still come into play if there is an accident or incident, but otherwise - keep the traffic flowing.
That should help get the country moving.
As per the article, it’s a four lane highway, the two outer lanes have a minimum speed limit of 120kph (75 mph) and a max speed of 140kph (88 mph). The two inner lanes are for trucks, buses and slower moving traffic.
The two outer lanes work well, people stick to both the speed limits and the traffic flows fast and smooth. Never seen an accident on it.
The guy in the article was fined 8 times going to Abu Dhabi and back for driving at 70 mph in the outer two lanes.
https://www.cartoq.com/car-life/driver-fined-8-tim...
With all the MLM and dawdlers at 50 - 60 clogging up the outside lanes of UK motorways, wouldn’t it be great to have a minimum of, say, 60 mph and a maximum of 80 mph in the two outer lanes. All the cameras that are installed could issue fines both ways: under 60 and over 80.
Clearly the variable limits could still come into play if there is an accident or incident, but otherwise - keep the traffic flowing.
That should help get the country moving.
Get people out of cars. Majority of journeys are under 3 miles - easily doable by bicycle or public transport. This would allow the rest of traffic to move freely.
The Dutch, who are more densely populated than us (England) went this way post 1960s. Their road traffic moves relatively freely.
The Dutch, who are more densely populated than us (England) went this way post 1960s. Their road traffic moves relatively freely.
Dubai(UAE) being a newer developed region and being quite wealthy means they have probably planned their roads for the future (although maybe this might be the present now).
Minimum and maximum speed limits in lanes wouldn’t be allowed to target the middle lane hoggers (because it would be deemed woke or an infringement of people’s civil liberties, insert other political argument).
In the Middle East, the public are probably much more law abiding than in the UK because the police are more strict. Over here the police either don’t have the time or resources to enforce such rules (and a £60 fine isn’t a major deterrent IF you get caught)
Minimum and maximum speed limits in lanes wouldn’t be allowed to target the middle lane hoggers (because it would be deemed woke or an infringement of people’s civil liberties, insert other political argument).
In the Middle East, the public are probably much more law abiding than in the UK because the police are more strict. Over here the police either don’t have the time or resources to enforce such rules (and a £60 fine isn’t a major deterrent IF you get caught)
Moodyman1 said:
Get people out of cars. Majority of journeys are under 3 miles - easily doable by bicycle or public transport. This would allow the rest of traffic to move freely.
The Dutch, who are more densely populated than us (England) went this way post 1960s. Their road traffic moves relatively freely.
All well and good until you:The Dutch, who are more densely populated than us (England) went this way post 1960s. Their road traffic moves relatively freely.
Have a child (or 3)
Need to carry anything with you
It rains
You find a hill (a lot more of them in the UK)
You need a shower at the other end
Your bike gets stolen as soon as you leave it, regardless of lock
Moodyman1 said:
Get people out of cars. Majority of journeys are under 3 miles - easily doable by bicycle or public transport. This would allow the rest of traffic to move freely.
FRO. At this time of year in Scotland commuting outside the hours of 8.30am to 4pm means travelling in darkness and it is currently -4 degrees outside. Perfect cycling conditions 
Busses outside the mostly densely populated areas are non-existent, and the terrain is 'quite hilly' in many places.
Moodyman1 said:
The Dutch, who are more densely populated than us (England) went this way post 1960s. Their road traffic moves relatively freely.
Apples and oranges as far as further north is concerned. The Netherlands are flat as a pancake and several degrees of latitude further south leading more to more winter daylight and a more temperate winter climate.The glib one-size-fits-all response that cycling and public transport is the answer is a big cause of resentment up here when those proposing don't stop to think that the UK isn't an homogenous blob and that it isn't an answer at all to many parts of our country. I'm no Scottish Nationalist (far far from it - check the thread) but I get the feeling of being ignored when the "English" assume a solution for them is a solution for everyone in Britain.
Edited by Evercross on Tuesday 10th December 06:59
GolfDragon said:
Dubai(UAE)
In the Middle East, the public are probably much more law abiding than in the UK because the police are more strict. Over here the police either don’t have the time or resources to enforce such rules (and a £60 fine isn’t a major deterrent IF you get caught)
Having worked in Saudi I can happily say that a combination of a driving population dominated by young men and somewhat sinecurial police force doesn't lead to high driving standards. In the Middle East, the public are probably much more law abiding than in the UK because the police are more strict. Over here the police either don’t have the time or resources to enforce such rules (and a £60 fine isn’t a major deterrent IF you get caught)
As others have noted, this is a matter of lightly utilised infrastructure, as opposed to an enforced policy; 4 lanes serving SE of the Emirates would be like having a 6-laner running from Manchester to Glasgow (with the east coast equally served!). The OP states that busy roads are still busy and congested.
Moodyman1 said:
Get people out of cars. Majority of journeys are under 3 miles - easily doable by bicycle or public transport. This would allow the rest of traffic to move freely.
The Dutch, who are more densely populated than us (England) went this way post 1960s. Their road traffic moves relatively freely.
Others will have their day of course, but the Dutch system wouldn't work here. I suspect that only a fraction of motorway traffic is made up of those who could have cycled. The Dutch, who are more densely populated than us (England) went this way post 1960s. Their road traffic moves relatively freely.
The issue isn't speed limits, it's road design and capacity. I commute to Leeds once per week and there is a prime example of terrible road design contributing to congestion where the M1 and M621 cross over. It is bizarre, but all the traffic on the right and all the traffic on the left effectively need to swap places....
The ultimate is the Singaporean way - and didn’t we want to be Singapore on Thames?
Government decides how many cars the roads can support without being congested. Then only issues enough permits for that number of cars. You need to bid for a permit. (for 10 years, so about 10% get auctioned a year).
Plus side - if you can afford a car, it’s really useful as traffic flows smoothly. Downside - a car is very expensive
Government decides how many cars the roads can support without being congested. Then only issues enough permits for that number of cars. You need to bid for a permit. (for 10 years, so about 10% get auctioned a year).
Plus side - if you can afford a car, it’s really useful as traffic flows smoothly. Downside - a car is very expensive
Can anyone with road planning knowledge shed light on the UK obsession with replacing roundabouts with traffic lights?
What was a flowing roundabout which, with a bit of anticipation, you can normally roll through without coming to a complete stop is now queues of stopped cars. Especially frustrating if you are traveling at a quiet time.
I presume it gives more options for controlling traffic by setting the timings but I part of me thinks it's a bit of a gravy train for consultants, private infrastructure companies etc.
What was a flowing roundabout which, with a bit of anticipation, you can normally roll through without coming to a complete stop is now queues of stopped cars. Especially frustrating if you are traveling at a quiet time.
I presume it gives more options for controlling traffic by setting the timings but I part of me thinks it's a bit of a gravy train for consultants, private infrastructure companies etc.
Moodyman1 said:
Get people out of cars. Majority of journeys are under 3 miles - easily doable by bicycle or public transport. This would allow the rest of traffic to move freely.
The Dutch, who are more densely populated than us (England) went this way post 1960s. Their road traffic moves relatively freely.
The problem we have in this country is that our approach to getting people out of cars is very much stick and not carrot - it seems the focus is on making it difficult to use or park the car, not making it easier for other alternatives. The Dutch, who are more densely populated than us (England) went this way post 1960s. Their road traffic moves relatively freely.
Tim Cognito said:
Can anyone with road planning knowledge shed light on the UK obsession with replacing roundabouts with traffic lights?
What was a flowing roundabout which, with a bit of anticipation, you can normally roll through without coming to a complete stop is now queues of stopped cars. Especially frustrating if you are traveling at a quiet time.
I presume it gives more options for controlling traffic by setting the timings but I part of me thinks it's a bit of a gravy train for consultants, private infrastructure companies etc.
Yes utter pain in the arse - up there with those fences designed to block the view right on the approach to roundabouts (that don't yet have traffic lights on them...)What was a flowing roundabout which, with a bit of anticipation, you can normally roll through without coming to a complete stop is now queues of stopped cars. Especially frustrating if you are traveling at a quiet time.
I presume it gives more options for controlling traffic by setting the timings but I part of me thinks it's a bit of a gravy train for consultants, private infrastructure companies etc.
Get all the traffic off the road that doesn't need to be there...
- Get more freight onto the railways.
- Everyone who can work from home, allowed to work from home. Bosses who won't let them made to pay additional income tax as an environmental levy.
- Deal with the abhorrent cost and invonvenience of public transport... If I were to commute to work by bus it would take me over two hours each way and cost £8 on account of needing two buses each way at a cost of £2 per bus journey. Train is £7.90 and takes over an hour. Car is £4 in fuel and takes 35 minutes. Fix this!
IIRC roundabouts are OK with low traffic demand but can’t cope once demand increases, leading to bottlenecks which then need lights to help maintain some form of flow.
If you’re on the dominant path through a roundabout, all good, but if you’re trying to get onto that roundabout from any other point, that dominant flow stops any other entry, and causes bottlenecks, which is why most now have a left-hand kink at the approach so traffic has to slow, creating gaps.
Or something like that.
And increased speed doesn’t always mean more traffic gets through either. I remember hearing that the highest flow rate for Anzac Bridge in Sydney, which carries around 160,000 vehicles each day, is when traffic is moving at around 50kmh, rather than the 60kmh posted.
Finally, building around one bottleneck just means traffic gets to the next bottleneck quicker. Some bottlenecks are actually designed via use of traffic lights and timings on the edge of high-traffic areas, such as city centres, to allow traffic in said centre to move around and get out before more traffic gets in.
If you’re on the dominant path through a roundabout, all good, but if you’re trying to get onto that roundabout from any other point, that dominant flow stops any other entry, and causes bottlenecks, which is why most now have a left-hand kink at the approach so traffic has to slow, creating gaps.
Or something like that.
And increased speed doesn’t always mean more traffic gets through either. I remember hearing that the highest flow rate for Anzac Bridge in Sydney, which carries around 160,000 vehicles each day, is when traffic is moving at around 50kmh, rather than the 60kmh posted.
Finally, building around one bottleneck just means traffic gets to the next bottleneck quicker. Some bottlenecks are actually designed via use of traffic lights and timings on the edge of high-traffic areas, such as city centres, to allow traffic in said centre to move around and get out before more traffic gets in.
Tim Cognito said:
Can anyone with road planning knowledge shed light on the UK obsession with replacing roundabouts with traffic lights?
I think it's because they're trying to make driving as poor an experience as public transport.It's not for the environment or traffic flow because invariably when they fail the traffic stops being a problem.
Tim Cognito said:
Can anyone with road planning knowledge shed light on the UK obsession with replacing roundabouts with traffic lights?
.
Yes, the local authority can control traffic lights. Roundabouts allow people to behave autonomously. .
If anyone thinks that the authorities will do anything significant to ease traffic, they will be disappointed. Politicians of all stripes would prefer we were on public transport.
Moodyman1 said:
Get people out of cars. Majority of journeys are under 3 miles - easily doable by bicycle or public transport. This would allow the rest of traffic to move freely.
The Dutch, who are more densely populated than us (England) went this way post 1960s. Their road traffic moves relatively freely.
Why not look at the longer journeys then, if it's over 3 miles then could that have been done on public transport. The Dutch, who are more densely populated than us (England) went this way post 1960s. Their road traffic moves relatively freely.
MitchT said:
Get all the traffic off the road that doesn't need to be there...
Lol@ public transport being £8.- Get more freight onto the railways.
- Everyone who can work from home, allowed to work from home. Bosses who won't let them made to pay additional income tax as an environmental levy.
- Deal with the abhorrent cost and invonvenience of public transport... If I were to commute to work by bus it would take me over two hours each way and cost £8 on account of needing two buses each way at a cost of £2 per bus journey. Train is £7.90 and takes over an hour. Car is £4 in fuel and takes 35 minutes. Fix this!
Where I work it's £43 for a 48-minute train ride (where it works, which is rarely), or you could drive, pay congestion charge and parking for about the same.
Some people. hahahaha
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