RE: New tyres shave 16 seconds from CGT 'ring lap
RE: New tyres shave 16 seconds from CGT 'ring lap
Friday 13th December 2024

New tyres shave 16 seconds from CGT 'ring lap

Fresh Michelin Cup 2s were expected to be good; maybe not this good...


It can feel like we’re past the peak of Nurburgring lap times now, as a viewing experience at least. A roadgoing (if not exactly road-friendly) Mercedes has lapped under 6:30, and everything that isn’t electric is automatic anyway, which for all they help in terms of raw numbers do detract from the spectacle of an onboard. But here we have a really good one: it’s not a record lap, nor even is it a new car, rather it’s what the Porsche Carrera GT can do with the very latest tyres fitted. You’re going to want to see this - and play it really, really loud. 

7:12.69 is the number, a huge improvement over the 7:28 set 20 years ago by Walter Rohrl. Goes to show just how far tyre tech has come in the past two decades that just swapping the rubber - same size as standard, no other changes disclosed - can be worth so much in terms of lap time. Back in 2004, the lap was part of an Auto Bild feature, just as this time: those of you who can read German can learn all about the supertest in January’s Sport Auto. There are even neat parallels in the driving talent, Jorg Bergmeister now the rangy, rapid German with a heap of Porsche experience behind the wheel. 

You might remember that, back when the new Michelin Cup 2s were announced in October, the Nordschelife was mentioned as a development track. “I’m impressed by how the engineers improved the feedback at the upper limits. You feel much more distinctly the point at which the tyre starts to lose its grip”, said JB back then, adding: “The new tyres not only make the Carrera GT faster, they make it easier for the car to be driven at speed.” And, well, now he’s proven it. Watching the 2004 lap back alongside this one - treat yourself, it’s Friday - demonstrates the advances as well. The driver can simply be more confident, evidenced by the huge gobs of throttle at every opportunity, firmer application of the brakes and what seems like less steering correction. And nowhere near the same amount of tyre squeal. The hesitation and apprehension that once existed seems to have been near enough expunged. Bergmeister is absolutely flying. 

It’s a joy to watch, really, yellow CGT flying through the forest on a wall of V10 wail and a great driver working hard to get the best from it. The downshifts alone are worth a few minutes of your time. Even in a modern context, this remains properly fast, the 20-year-old supercar nudging ahead of the 718 GT4 RS, Camaro ZL1 1LE and the M4 CSL (on Cup 2Rs) in the Nurburgring rankings. Seems there’s life in the old dog yet. And some fine tea break entertainment coming your way. Plus don’t forget all UK CGTs should have had the tyres swapped as part of the recent recall, so it’s an upgrade just ready and waiting to be appreciated. This Seal Grey car has the Cup 2s, for example - all you need is £1.1m…


Author
Discussion

Slowlygettingit

Original Poster:

940 posts

70 months

Friday 13th December 2024
quotequote all
Love the CGT.

Juanco20

3,352 posts

222 months

Friday 13th December 2024
quotequote all
Or maybe he's just a better driver

andy43

13,177 posts

283 months

Friday 13th December 2024
quotequote all
Different driver, different tarmac, different weather, different fuel, different car and different tyres.
Could be any or all of those.

s62

515 posts

226 months

Friday 13th December 2024
quotequote all
The track is faster than it was 20 years ago.

GTRene

22,431 posts

253 months

Friday 13th December 2024
quotequote all
still a good time that should be renewed, a bit to compare with modern cars also using this sort modern tires, to get a better insight.

all old car tests should be done again with new tires and suspension, come on :-)

BricktopST205

2,711 posts

163 months

Friday 13th December 2024
quotequote all
andy43 said:
Different driver, different tarmac, different weather, different fuel, different car and different tyres.
Could be any or all of those.
Pretty much this. The ring is such a long track that there could be so many variables that lap times are just irrelevant really.

daveco

4,400 posts

236 months

Friday 13th December 2024
quotequote all
GTRene said:
still a good time that should be renewed, a bit to compare with modern cars also using this sort modern tires, to get a better insight.

all old car tests should be done again with new tires and suspension, come on :-)
+1

Would bloody love to see an F40/F50/XJ220/EB110SS do a lap on modern tyres with a brave driver!

Bright Halo

3,979 posts

264 months

Friday 13th December 2024
quotequote all
He wasn’t hanging around was he?
I wonder what time Walter would have done on those tyres?

Skeptisk

8,897 posts

138 months

Friday 13th December 2024
quotequote all
Juanco20 said:
Or maybe he's just a better driver
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_R%C3%B6hrl

Walter Rohrl was World Rally Champion, winner of Le Mans and development driver for Porsche who was the development driver for the CGT.

Most likely the time would be less if Rohrl was driving (maybe not today - he is quite old now).

CG2020UK

2,954 posts

69 months

Friday 13th December 2024
quotequote all
Regardless of if it really is the tyres or not I always swear by premium tyres and in particular Michelin.

Might be in my head but always a massive difference every time I’ve changed.

Kawasicki

14,363 posts

264 months

Friday 13th December 2024
quotequote all
Bright Halo said:
He wasn’t hanging around was he?
I wonder what time Walter would have done on those tyres?
He didn’t seem to be really driving at the limit though.

hu8742

362 posts

154 months

Friday 13th December 2024
quotequote all
There's no way I would push a CGT hard around that track, or any other track, given its value.

AmyRichardson

1,972 posts

71 months

Friday 13th December 2024
quotequote all
Skeptisk said:
Juanco20 said:
Or maybe he's just a better driver
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_R%C3%B6hrl

Walter Rohrl was World Rally Champion, winner of Le Mans and development driver for Porsche who was the development driver for the CGT.

Most likely the time would be less if Rohrl was driving (maybe not today - he is quite old now).
Haha, yes. Rohrl may not have been the ultimate track driver, lionised as he was in Porsche circles for a while, but he wouldn't have left 10+s on the table!

OnDaysLikeThese

80 posts

38 months

Friday 13th December 2024
quotequote all
I wonder if that’s the fastest manual gearbox road car lap time? I’m probably missing something obvious.

And I wonder if Cup 2Rs (what a modern ‘record’ car would be given) could get it within a whisker’s of 7 min. flat?

Some life left in the old dog!

anonymous-user

83 months

Friday 13th December 2024
quotequote all
i agree he didn't seem to be particularly near the limit in a few corners, but weren't there some rather brutal over revs? around 2.19 seemed particualrly harsh. Plus the engine doesn't seem that responsive and sounds a bit clattery in places.

British Beef

2,572 posts

194 months

Friday 13th December 2024
quotequote all
Bake pads have also presumably changed with new items, likely better compound.

And as others say, driver, track, condition, all are variables that have changed over 20 years.

It would be interesting to stick an old 1980s F1 car on modern f1 tyres to see how the track times compare.

Magikarp

1,749 posts

77 months

Friday 13th December 2024
quotequote all
My all time favourite car.

CraigyMc

18,369 posts

265 months

Friday 13th December 2024
quotequote all
ESSEM123 said:
i agree he didn't seem to be particularly near the limit in a few corners, but weren't there some rather brutal over revs? around 2.19 seemed particualrly harsh. Plus the engine doesn't seem that responsive and sounds a bit clattery in places.
The V10 is the part of the car most at home on the ring. It was designed for an abandoned F1 project -- it won't be hurting from being buzzed a little on downshifts or running hard into the limiter.

The car is too softly damped and undersprung for the amount of tyre grip the new tyres have, so the driver (Jörg Bergmeister) is having to manage that, which results in a lot of early braking and dwell in cornering. If they were to have refreshed the suspension with modern stuff I'm sure it would have looked a lot more balls-out while actually being easier to get the laptime out.

thegreenhell

23,863 posts

248 months

Friday 13th December 2024
quotequote all
OnDaysLikeThese said:
I wonder if that’s the fastest manual gearbox road car lap time? I’m probably missing something obvious.
Dodge Viper ACR - 7:01.3

Chestrockwell

2,947 posts

186 months

Friday 13th December 2024
quotequote all
This is only 12 seconds or so off the 918 which has a lot more power and tech!

It makes you wonder if these new super/hyper cars have actually moved the game on or not. I imagine Porsche can easily clock a sub 7 second time without a power increase, just a few minor adjustments