'Loose' Sump Plug
Discussion
Hi,
Posting from an anonymous account for now... I was hoping for some advice. Maybe others have been in the same situation.
My GRY was in for it's 2nd service at Toyota main dealer in December. Under 10k miles, I've had it since new (1st new car, etc), planned to keep it a long time if I could.
Car is now in garage because it turns out the sump plug was not correctly tightened, plug backed off and car dropped all its oil.
How long it's been badly leaking is unclear. I've not done much miles at all since service. Car was turned off when the low pressure oil warning came up on dashboard and I was luckily in a car park. Underside of car soaking with oil. It didn't sound great by the time I realised what was happening...
I feel a bit sick to be honest. Car was recovered to dealer and is sitting there waiting for the verdict.
The way I see it is they will either just chuck more oil in it and cross fingers if it sounds ok, or its toast and will need a new engine? I can't see a scenario where I will be happy with the outcome.
Any advise on what I should be asking for here, or how to proceed? I'm so angry, only used the dealer to keep the warranty as safe as possible, wish I'd taken the gamble not to now and used my local garage.
Thanks
Posting from an anonymous account for now... I was hoping for some advice. Maybe others have been in the same situation.
My GRY was in for it's 2nd service at Toyota main dealer in December. Under 10k miles, I've had it since new (1st new car, etc), planned to keep it a long time if I could.
Car is now in garage because it turns out the sump plug was not correctly tightened, plug backed off and car dropped all its oil.
How long it's been badly leaking is unclear. I've not done much miles at all since service. Car was turned off when the low pressure oil warning came up on dashboard and I was luckily in a car park. Underside of car soaking with oil. It didn't sound great by the time I realised what was happening...
I feel a bit sick to be honest. Car was recovered to dealer and is sitting there waiting for the verdict.
The way I see it is they will either just chuck more oil in it and cross fingers if it sounds ok, or its toast and will need a new engine? I can't see a scenario where I will be happy with the outcome.
Any advise on what I should be asking for here, or how to proceed? I'm so angry, only used the dealer to keep the warranty as safe as possible, wish I'd taken the gamble not to now and used my local garage.
Thanks
n0m0re0il said:
Car was turned off when the low pressure oil warning came up on dashboard and I was luckily in a car park. It didn't sound great by the time I realised what was happening...
Sounds odd for an engine to get noisy that quickly, especially if not under load. Nonetheless the starting point must be to chuck some fresh oil in it and see what happens. Does the car have an oil pressure gauge or just the light? Even if it has no gauge I'd expect the dealer to be able to rig something sufficient to check it. Panamax said:
Sounds odd for an engine to get noisy that quickly, especially if not under load. Nonetheless the starting point must be to chuck some fresh oil in it and see what happens. Does the car have an oil pressure gauge or just the light? Even if it has no gauge I'd expect the dealer to be able to rig something sufficient to check it.
It's just a dashboard message saying low oil pressure and to turn it off ASAP from what I remember.The only thing I thought was the loose plug was making a massive vacuum leak and thus making the engine run rough? Or the lack of oil meant some of the hydraulic stuff in the engine wasn't working any more? The engine sounding odd was the initial thing I noticed before the warning message came up.
Makes me itch thinking of them pulling the car apart when they can't even tighten a sump plug properly. Hate main dealers.
n0m0re0il said:
Hi,
Posting from an anonymous account for now... I was hoping for some advice. Maybe others have been in the same situation.
My GRY was in for it's 2nd service at Toyota main dealer in December. Under 10k miles, I've had it since new (1st new car, etc), planned to keep it a long time if I could.
Car is now in garage because it turns out the sump plug was not correctly tightened, plug backed off and car dropped all its oil.
How long it's been badly leaking is unclear. I've not done much miles at all since service. Car was turned off when the low pressure oil warning came up on dashboard and I was luckily in a car park. Underside of car soaking with oil. It didn't sound great by the time I realised what was happening...
I feel a bit sick to be honest. Car was recovered to dealer and is sitting there waiting for the verdict.
The way I see it is they will either just chuck more oil in it and cross fingers if it sounds ok, or its toast and will need a new engine? I can't see a scenario where I will be happy with the outcome.
Any advise on what I should be asking for here, or how to proceed? I'm so angry, only used the dealer to keep the warranty as safe as possible, wish I'd taken the gamble not to now and used my local garage.
Thanks
Would you not be happy with a new engine? Posting from an anonymous account for now... I was hoping for some advice. Maybe others have been in the same situation.
My GRY was in for it's 2nd service at Toyota main dealer in December. Under 10k miles, I've had it since new (1st new car, etc), planned to keep it a long time if I could.
Car is now in garage because it turns out the sump plug was not correctly tightened, plug backed off and car dropped all its oil.
How long it's been badly leaking is unclear. I've not done much miles at all since service. Car was turned off when the low pressure oil warning came up on dashboard and I was luckily in a car park. Underside of car soaking with oil. It didn't sound great by the time I realised what was happening...
I feel a bit sick to be honest. Car was recovered to dealer and is sitting there waiting for the verdict.
The way I see it is they will either just chuck more oil in it and cross fingers if it sounds ok, or its toast and will need a new engine? I can't see a scenario where I will be happy with the outcome.
Any advise on what I should be asking for here, or how to proceed? I'm so angry, only used the dealer to keep the warranty as safe as possible, wish I'd taken the gamble not to now and used my local garage.
Thanks
Good luck op. I'd be pushing for a new engine, even if it runs damage is unknown.
That said, a good friend...used to have a BMW 328, he was doing mad skids around a roundabout, turns out the BMW drank oil. Hydraulic lifters drained due to low oil and oil surge combined and the thing sounded horrendous. They continued to abuse the car for another 5 years.
That said this was a £500 beater Vs a new 40k car.
That said, a good friend...used to have a BMW 328, he was doing mad skids around a roundabout, turns out the BMW drank oil. Hydraulic lifters drained due to low oil and oil surge combined and the thing sounded horrendous. They continued to abuse the car for another 5 years.
That said this was a £500 beater Vs a new 40k car.
spikeyhead said:
My biggest surprise is that they didn't drain it through the filler plug?
If you don't drain it out through the sump you'll not see if it's dropping metal onto the (usually magnetic for that reason) plug. You'll not see if the oil's sludgey.Doing it through the fill hole is for s
tty quicklube shops in the US that don't give a fk.A lack of oil pressure could make an engine sound noisy for reasons that may have done no harm at all. Hydraulic tappets will be noisy without oil as will cam chain tensioners (don't know the GRY engine, it may have either, both or none).
The dealer isn't going to put a new engine in if it sounds ok once they've topped the oil up.
The dealer isn't going to put a new engine in if it sounds ok once they've topped the oil up.
CraigyMc said:
spikeyhead said:
My biggest surprise is that they didn't drain it through the filler plug?
If you don't drain it out through the sump you'll not see if it's dropping metal onto the (usually magnetic for that reason) plug. You'll not see if the oil's sludgey.Doing it through the fill hole is for s
tty quicklube shops in the US that don't give a fk.CraigyMc said:
spikeyhead said:
My biggest surprise is that they didn't drain it through the filler plug?
If you don't drain it out through the sump you'll not see if it's dropping metal onto the (usually magnetic for that reason) plug. You'll not see if the oil's sludgey.Doing it through the fill hole is for s
tty quicklube shops in the US that don't give a fk.The problem here is how long was it dripping oil getting progressively lower oil level before the plug finally dropped off, in theory you could have driven it with low oil for some distance, the underside being smothered in il gives that scenario some credence, had there been no oil loss until plug detached then unly the undertray immediately below the sump should have been dripping oil.
You, OP, were on site, was the floor awash with a sumpful or a glassful? was the engine making any odd noises before mass oil loss became apparent?
I'd expect them to drop the sump then remove and inspect main and big end shells for any sign of damage at the very least and invite you to come and look at what they find.
I'd really prefer another engine supplying, but Toyota are not in the frame here its presumably the main dealer workshop at fault unless the sump threaded collar has parted company with the sump itself (most unlikely), assuming dealer admits this is their fault if they don't come up with a suitable result you could always escalate to Toyota UK for some help.
You, OP, were on site, was the floor awash with a sumpful or a glassful? was the engine making any odd noises before mass oil loss became apparent?
I'd expect them to drop the sump then remove and inspect main and big end shells for any sign of damage at the very least and invite you to come and look at what they find.
I'd really prefer another engine supplying, but Toyota are not in the frame here its presumably the main dealer workshop at fault unless the sump threaded collar has parted company with the sump itself (most unlikely), assuming dealer admits this is their fault if they don't come up with a suitable result you could always escalate to Toyota UK for some help.
My 996 ran very roughly when the technician loosened the oil filler cap to check the AOS (all to do with crankcase pressure apparently) I imagine a loose sump plug could cause a similar issue. Sounded ‘lumpy’ rather than rattly though.
I think all you can do is see what happens when it’s been refilled. I’d certainly put them on notice that you’ll be coming back if there are any related problems in future.
I think all you can do is see what happens when it’s been refilled. I’d certainly put them on notice that you’ll be coming back if there are any related problems in future.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Mercedes did the same. Refused to do anything about it or take responsibility.
Toyota should have better customer service...?
Mercedes did the same. Refused to do anything about it or take responsibility.
Toyota should have better customer service...?
Do not let them fob you off with a "seems fine for now" approach – because if there is hidden damage, it will be your problem later.
Demand a Full Engine Health Check:
1) Compression test (to check for any internal damage)
2) Borescope inspection (to check cylinder walls for scoring)
3) Oil pressure check (to confirm no loss of pressure when running)
4) Bearing inspection (if possible, to check for damage due to oil starvation)
5) Ask the Dealer for a Sample – Before they drain and refill (if they have not done so already), request a sample of the oil that was left in the sump for analysis by an independent lab.
If there is any sign of engine damage, push for a full engine replacement at no cost to you.
If they insist that it is fine, demand a written extended warranty covering the engine for an additional period (at least another 3 years beyond standard warranty) to cover any long-term damage.
You should not be out of pocket for this at all, including:
1) Courtesy car while this is resolved.
2) Any costs related to this issue.
3) Potential loss of value if you ever sell the car (you could argue it is now compromised due to their mistake).
If the dealer refuses to take responsibility, involve:
1) Toyota UK directly.
2) An independent specialist to assess the damage.
3) A solicitor/trading standards (since the service was not carried out with due care and skill, they are liable under the Consumer Rights Act 2015).
Finally, you may be able to reject the car and demand a replacement or refund under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, but it depends on how you approach it and the severity of the damage.
Demand a Full Engine Health Check:
1) Compression test (to check for any internal damage)
2) Borescope inspection (to check cylinder walls for scoring)
3) Oil pressure check (to confirm no loss of pressure when running)
4) Bearing inspection (if possible, to check for damage due to oil starvation)
5) Ask the Dealer for a Sample – Before they drain and refill (if they have not done so already), request a sample of the oil that was left in the sump for analysis by an independent lab.
If there is any sign of engine damage, push for a full engine replacement at no cost to you.
If they insist that it is fine, demand a written extended warranty covering the engine for an additional period (at least another 3 years beyond standard warranty) to cover any long-term damage.
You should not be out of pocket for this at all, including:
1) Courtesy car while this is resolved.
2) Any costs related to this issue.
3) Potential loss of value if you ever sell the car (you could argue it is now compromised due to their mistake).
If the dealer refuses to take responsibility, involve:
1) Toyota UK directly.
2) An independent specialist to assess the damage.
3) A solicitor/trading standards (since the service was not carried out with due care and skill, they are liable under the Consumer Rights Act 2015).
Finally, you may be able to reject the car and demand a replacement or refund under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, but it depends on how you approach it and the severity of the damage.
Smint said:
The problem here is how long was it dripping oil getting progressively lower oil level before the plug finally dropped off, in theory you could have driven it with low oil for some distance, the underside being smothered in il gives that scenario some credence, had there been no oil loss until plug detached then unly the undertray immediately below the sump should have been dripping oil.
I would expecta modern Toyota engine to have an oil level sensor as well as the oil pressure sensor. If it had been dripping and the level dropping over an extended period, I would have expected the level sensor to trigger a warning before it got to the point where there was insufficient oil pressure. Sounds as if the level was OK until the moment the plug dropped out.My concerns would be bottom end damage, which you wont be able to see without a significant strip down.
And when the oil pressure dropped its possible the cam chain tensioner will have fully closed which may have allowed the chain to slap against the case and tensioner rails. Possibly taking chunks out as it went which are now floating around..
If it wasnt in warranty I would maybe risk it after a close inspection of oil filter, oil, sump pick up etc.
As its in warranty I would be wanting to go a bit deeper.
And when the oil pressure dropped its possible the cam chain tensioner will have fully closed which may have allowed the chain to slap against the case and tensioner rails. Possibly taking chunks out as it went which are now floating around..
If it wasnt in warranty I would maybe risk it after a close inspection of oil filter, oil, sump pick up etc.
As its in warranty I would be wanting to go a bit deeper.
CraigyMc said:
If you don't drain it out through the sump you'll not see if it's dropping metal onto the (usually magnetic for that reason) plug. You'll not see if the oil's sludgey.
Doing it through the fill hole is for stty quicklube shops in the US that don't give a fk.
Usually?Doing it through the fill hole is for s
tty quicklube shops in the US that don't give a fk.Not many are magnetic nowadays
Plus many merch engines and others don't have plugs these days
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