VED Rates, lacking logic
Discussion
Hi all, first post here. Me and my dad are browsing the internet in search of cars to potentially replace my mum’s 2015 Nissan Note, supercharged I might add to give this post some zing. Currently we’re looking for alternatives that are similarly efficient and low on tax (£35). A car that has got potential is the BMW 2 series active tourer. I know, definitely a marmite car for being the first BMW to commit sin and go FWD. But as a car for my mum and an alternative to a Nissan, it’s quite a step up.
Anyway I’m waffling. The matter in hand is the tax rates being very odd. As we know between certain years the tax amounts can fluctuate. So for anything pre 2017/04 the tax for a 218i is £35, great. But if you want anything post 2017/04, £195. That’s annoying, newer car and yet more tax.
But this is where the illogical question comes in. My dad has a 2016 4.4 SDV8 Range Rover. £430 of your pounds to tax a year, but if he had a car that was just a year younger, he would also be paying £195.
This is where my curiosity lies, what on earth is going on with that? Why is a car with tiny emissions being bumped up and a massive tank of a car with a v8 diesel being bumped down? I look forward to seeing what you fellows think on this matter.
Many thanks
Anyway I’m waffling. The matter in hand is the tax rates being very odd. As we know between certain years the tax amounts can fluctuate. So for anything pre 2017/04 the tax for a 218i is £35, great. But if you want anything post 2017/04, £195. That’s annoying, newer car and yet more tax.
But this is where the illogical question comes in. My dad has a 2016 4.4 SDV8 Range Rover. £430 of your pounds to tax a year, but if he had a car that was just a year younger, he would also be paying £195.
This is where my curiosity lies, what on earth is going on with that? Why is a car with tiny emissions being bumped up and a massive tank of a car with a v8 diesel being bumped down? I look forward to seeing what you fellows think on this matter.
Many thanks
Another area where government policy is incoherent. Some very ordinary cars are now hit with a spiteful rate of VED which must reduce their value immensely. I’m surprised PH hasn’t done more to highlight the absurdity of it. Especially where engines and model are identical and the only change is the registration plate.
Like the Mustang S550 which was silly tax from 2015 then about 2017 dropped to 195. My "import" 2005 Mustang used to be quite reasonable but is now only taxed 6 months for its monumental sub-1000 mile annual trip page as they inflated it. Yet my MX5 RF is only 295 and should be less, given it returns 40 plus mpg, all day, every day.
Like Fiat Pandas which are silly VED before identical ones from 2009, possibly, became 35 and later 20. So the "cheap" older Pandas work out more when you add that in. Adverts always skirt round that point.
Like Fiat Pandas which are silly VED before identical ones from 2009, possibly, became 35 and later 20. So the "cheap" older Pandas work out more when you add that in. Adverts always skirt round that point.
On my 2003 Ford Fiesta 1.4 is £265 a year. A diesel Fiesta from the same year is about £35 a year. I’m not worried as VED is probably a lot cheaper than it was 40 years ago relatively.Although there’s no rhyme or reason on some of VED pricing we all know beforehand what you pay if you do a little research.
About 20 years ago they had tax exempt cut off date of pre-1973 cars, I owned a 1972 Triumph Stag at the time, the amount of post 1973 stag owners who wanted the early cars to pay the full amount. People get spiteful and jealous if they see someone else getting a deal.
About 20 years ago they had tax exempt cut off date of pre-1973 cars, I owned a 1972 Triumph Stag at the time, the amount of post 1973 stag owners who wanted the early cars to pay the full amount. People get spiteful and jealous if they see someone else getting a deal.
I fortunately bought my i3 the day after the 'luxury' tax had expired. I keep a old range rover about that is nearly 800 a year and only averages slightly more miles than that lol.
Fortunately there is a trick when setting up the tax as a direct debit that can give a fortnight for 'free' before sorning again.
Fortunately there is a trick when setting up the tax as a direct debit that can give a fortnight for 'free' before sorning again.
I'm assuming you're quite young op. It's a newsworthy story when the government does something logical
You may remember for years they were pushing diesels as being cleaner than petrols, when those of us with eyes could see that they weren't
Ved has never made any sense. It should be a mileage charge and the easiest way to do that is to put it on fuel as a large engined car that does 500 miles a year doesn't pollute much at all
You may remember for years they were pushing diesels as being cleaner than petrols, when those of us with eyes could see that they weren't
Ved has never made any sense. It should be a mileage charge and the easiest way to do that is to put it on fuel as a large engined car that does 500 miles a year doesn't pollute much at all
VED is nearly always under review for a wholesale change. However, it tends (not always see the EV changes) to be a change going forward, allowing grandfather rights on cars bought prior to the change. Sometimes this works in your favour, sometimes not. However, the only other option is to make all changes retrospective and that will cause just as many, if not more, arguments.
Just play the (stupid) system.
Want an economical car? Buy one registered between 2003 and 2017, pay £35 a year tax. Some 'dirty diesels' in this class are new enough to be ULEZ compliant too.
Want a fast car? Then its either older than 2006, for £430 ish a year, or post 2017, when the flat rate was introduced and fords cost the same as ferraris. Bonus points for buying fast cars between 2017 and 2020, new enough for the flat rate but old enough to now circumvent the luxury car tax add on.
Ideal two car garage from a VED point of view - a 2015 bmw 120d costing £35 a year to tax, and a 2018 Lamborghini Aventador or Range Rover, costing £195 to tax.
Want an economical car? Buy one registered between 2003 and 2017, pay £35 a year tax. Some 'dirty diesels' in this class are new enough to be ULEZ compliant too.
Want a fast car? Then its either older than 2006, for £430 ish a year, or post 2017, when the flat rate was introduced and fords cost the same as ferraris. Bonus points for buying fast cars between 2017 and 2020, new enough for the flat rate but old enough to now circumvent the luxury car tax add on.
Ideal two car garage from a VED point of view - a 2015 bmw 120d costing £35 a year to tax, and a 2018 Lamborghini Aventador or Range Rover, costing £195 to tax.
Opapayer said:
VED is nearly always under review for a wholesale change. However, it tends (not always see the EV changes) to be a change going forward, allowing grandfather rights on cars bought prior to the change. Sometimes this works in your favour, sometimes not. However, the only other option is to make all changes retrospective and that will cause just as many, if not more, arguments.
They hardly ever do stuff retrospectively, yes, but in the case of VED, they have. All sub 100g/km cars are Band A, registered between 23/03/06 and 1/4/17 they were £0. These have been advanced into Band B and now pay £20. Small fry yes, but moving the goalposts nonetheless. 
Band L and M (225g/km and 250g/km +) cars from 2006 to 2017 will die out, unless they are special or collectable. After April it'll be almost £800 p.a. to tax them for 12 months.
Some cars actually benefitted from the change. A 2016 Nissan 370Z for example is £760, a mid 2017 one, £195.
Top lurking OP, over 5 years and only 2 posts!
Jap90s said:
I'm assuming you're quite young op. It's a newsworthy story when the government does something logical
You may remember for years they were pushing diesels as being cleaner than petrols, when those of us with eyes could see that they weren't
Ved has never made any sense. It should be a mileage charge and the easiest way to do that is to put it on fuel as a large engined car that does 500 miles a year doesn't pollute much at all
Wouldn’t say I’m exactly old by any stretch haha, but I am old enough to know about the massive push for diesels back in the day. This post was more just to get the opinions on PH for this particular scenario we’re in where it’s a pain in the arse if you want something that emits the same pollutants but getting charged more for it just because it falls into a certain year, especially with the newer stuff rather than the older stuff. You may remember for years they were pushing diesels as being cleaner than petrols, when those of us with eyes could see that they weren't
Ved has never made any sense. It should be a mileage charge and the easiest way to do that is to put it on fuel as a large engined car that does 500 miles a year doesn't pollute much at all
And the same thing will always go around, when has the government done anything logical. VED works in some people’s benefit, sometimes it doesn’t, in this case for what we’re planning it doesn’t. Our original plan was to go for an i3 as my mum does an 8 mile round trip for work so it would make sense. But with pay per mile and the ev’s being taxed as well, added to poor electric rates, there really isn’t any benefit anymore of an ev over her Nissan Note with its £35 tax and fuel efficiency.
First world problems I know haha
VED is preposterous now.
I’ve a Merc SL 2009 plate. Almost £800
Mrs DS Merc SLK 55 plate £450
C class diesel 2012 £165 (last time)
Yamaha R1 1000cc £120
Yamaha Tenere 700cc £75 (not sure)
Yamaha 250 enduro £75 (not sure)
That’s £1685 in VED which is absolutely ludicrous! It’s quite a lot more than it costs to insure them all.
How is something like a BMW or Audi A4 paying £35 and a bloody motorbike paying £120?!?
It makes no sense whatsoever.
I’ve a Merc SL 2009 plate. Almost £800
Mrs DS Merc SLK 55 plate £450
C class diesel 2012 £165 (last time)
Yamaha R1 1000cc £120
Yamaha Tenere 700cc £75 (not sure)
Yamaha 250 enduro £75 (not sure)
That’s £1685 in VED which is absolutely ludicrous! It’s quite a lot more than it costs to insure them all.
How is something like a BMW or Audi A4 paying £35 and a bloody motorbike paying £120?!?
It makes no sense whatsoever.
Here's a radical idea that will never catch on. All new cars, £195 flat rate. Fine. Luxury car tax band for first 5 years, which increases with inflation (no more stealth tax). £40k threshold in 2017 is now £53k in 2025. First year tax based on co2 emissions continues.
All cars 2001 to 2017 - capped at band E, which is currently, £195. So a car can be cheaper, but no more expensive than £195.
cars older than 2001, flat rate of £195. Which is cheaper than both rates currently.
All cars 2001 to 2017 - capped at band E, which is currently, £195. So a car can be cheaper, but no more expensive than £195.
cars older than 2001, flat rate of £195. Which is cheaper than both rates currently.
Dog Star said:
VED is preposterous now.
I ve a Merc SL 2009 plate. Almost £800
Mrs DS Merc SLK 55 plate £450
C class diesel 2012 £165 (last time)
Yamaha R1 1000cc £120
Yamaha Tenere 700cc £75 (not sure)
Yamaha 250 enduro £75 (not sure)
That s £1685 in VED which is absolutely ludicrous! It s quite a lot more than it costs to insure them all.
How is something like a BMW or Audi A4 paying £35 and a bloody motorbike paying £120?!?
It makes no sense whatsoever.
All bikes over 600cc are now £121.I ve a Merc SL 2009 plate. Almost £800
Mrs DS Merc SLK 55 plate £450
C class diesel 2012 £165 (last time)
Yamaha R1 1000cc £120
Yamaha Tenere 700cc £75 (not sure)
Yamaha 250 enduro £75 (not sure)
That s £1685 in VED which is absolutely ludicrous! It s quite a lot more than it costs to insure them all.
How is something like a BMW or Audi A4 paying £35 and a bloody motorbike paying £120?!?
It makes no sense whatsoever.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/67d...
UK govt were too lazy to do emission bands for bikes. Most have cats now, my Triumph does.
It made sense 'at the time' to introduce emission banding in 2001, but only because they now had the data to do it, Ireland stuck to engines size taxing until 2008! It's thousands per year for an engine over 3 litre. Because so many people bought low band cars, and manufacturers sold lots of bands A to C, revenue dropped sharply. So they re-introduced a flat rate in 2017.
brillomaster said:
Here's a radical idea that will never catch on. All new cars, £195 flat rate. Fine. Luxury car tax band for first 5 years, which increases with inflation (no more stealth tax). £40k threshold in 2017 is now £53k in 2025. First year tax based on co2 emissions continues.
All cars 2001 to 2017 - capped at band E, which is currently, £195. So a car can be cheaper, but no more expensive than £195.
cars older than 2001, flat rate of £195. Which is cheaper than both rates currently.
That would make sense and prevent perfectly serviceable 56 plate onwards cars with biggish engines being scrapped.All cars 2001 to 2017 - capped at band E, which is currently, £195. So a car can be cheaper, but no more expensive than £195.
cars older than 2001, flat rate of £195. Which is cheaper than both rates currently.
But sense and government rarely meet.
brillomaster said:
Here's a radical idea that will never catch on. All new cars, £195 flat rate. Fine. Luxury car tax band for first 5 years, which increases with inflation (no more stealth tax). £40k threshold in 2017 is now £53k in 2025. First year tax based on co2 emissions continues.
All cars 2001 to 2017 - capped at band E, which is currently, £195. So a car can be cheaper, but no more expensive than £195.
cars older than 2001, flat rate of £195. Which is cheaper than both rates currently.
Which sounds great, but whatever the reduction in tax is, as a result of those changes, will have to be plugged elsewhere. The government (any government whatever the rosette colour ) needs to generate a certain amount of tax. If you reduce one lot of tax, you have to increase it elsewhere. Whatever, they do it will advantage some and disadvantage others. All cars 2001 to 2017 - capped at band E, which is currently, £195. So a car can be cheaper, but no more expensive than £195.
cars older than 2001, flat rate of £195. Which is cheaper than both rates currently.
It’s great looking after yourself, but is that the purpose of taxation? For example the tax on booze was simplified recently. The stronger the booze, the higher the tax. Makes sense? Now what if they went to the bigger the engine the more the tax, made it retrospective and had say three bands? Again, some will gain, some will lose and some will be similar. There would be tales of woe on here, much like the OP and the guy with 5 vehicles complaining he’s paying a lot in road tax (is that a surprise?). There appears to be a lack of people saying how much better off they are though, probably because those benefitting tend to keep quiet.
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