What's the perfect FWD/RWD/AWD performance car for you?
Discussion
We all know the feeling when you get in a car and drive it and it just "fits like a glove" and feels inherently "right". What are those cars that feel like they were made for you and what were the ones perhaps that you thought could be that car but didn't quite hit the mark for you?
FWD - Peugeot 205 GTi 1.9
I had a 15 year love affair with this car from before I could even drive and when I finally got to drive one, it felt just right from the moment that it first turned a wheel and I felt "locked in" to it straight away (honourable mention for the mk1 Golf GTi, Supercharged MINI Cooper S and DC2 Integra Type R too).
Renault Clio RS 182 following essentially the same formula should have been just as great but just lacked something for me.
RWD - BMW 1M
A BMW has been the "daily driver" car that I have aspired to for as long as I can remember until relatively recently. My first "proper" BMW driving experience was an E30 325i, which I absolutely loved but newer generations of 3-Series have felt a bit too big and refined to give me the same feeling and I have only really replicated that feeling in the big-engined 1-Series, which feel a bit more raw and "rough and ready". I've never driven a 1M of course but for that reason and its pugnacious styling, which I like better than the 2-Series/M2, this has to be the ultimate modern BMW for me and one of the great BMW M cars? I'd take a 1st generation BMW M2 as a close 2nd though.
The last generation Mustang GT was the RWD performance car that I really thought that I was going to love but just didn't gel with. Looked cool and sounded fantastic and it was fast but not as fast as I imagined and it just felt a bit numb and dim-witted to me. Lots of mechanical grip though, so I'm not sure why people crash them so much!
AWD - Subaru Impreza P1
I had a "Blobeye" WRX and it just felt so perfectly setup for "making progress" in any weather on a bumpy and twisty British B-road but the ultimate Impreza for me was always the P1.
The Mitsubishi Evo VIII was the AWD performance car that missed the mark a little for me. I thought that the Evo looked better than the Impreza, was faster and sensational when you were "on it" but not very enjoyable to drive the rest of the time, too laggy and "crashy" and the engine just lacked the character of the Subaru "Boxer" engine, so even though the image of the Impreza was a bit of a negative for me in the 2000s, ultimately it just felt better to me to drive more of the time (and the one that I drove was the least extreme 260 version).
So what are the "perfect" FWD, RWD and AWD performance cars for you?
FWD - Peugeot 205 GTi 1.9
I had a 15 year love affair with this car from before I could even drive and when I finally got to drive one, it felt just right from the moment that it first turned a wheel and I felt "locked in" to it straight away (honourable mention for the mk1 Golf GTi, Supercharged MINI Cooper S and DC2 Integra Type R too).
Renault Clio RS 182 following essentially the same formula should have been just as great but just lacked something for me.
RWD - BMW 1M
A BMW has been the "daily driver" car that I have aspired to for as long as I can remember until relatively recently. My first "proper" BMW driving experience was an E30 325i, which I absolutely loved but newer generations of 3-Series have felt a bit too big and refined to give me the same feeling and I have only really replicated that feeling in the big-engined 1-Series, which feel a bit more raw and "rough and ready". I've never driven a 1M of course but for that reason and its pugnacious styling, which I like better than the 2-Series/M2, this has to be the ultimate modern BMW for me and one of the great BMW M cars? I'd take a 1st generation BMW M2 as a close 2nd though.
The last generation Mustang GT was the RWD performance car that I really thought that I was going to love but just didn't gel with. Looked cool and sounded fantastic and it was fast but not as fast as I imagined and it just felt a bit numb and dim-witted to me. Lots of mechanical grip though, so I'm not sure why people crash them so much!
AWD - Subaru Impreza P1
I had a "Blobeye" WRX and it just felt so perfectly setup for "making progress" in any weather on a bumpy and twisty British B-road but the ultimate Impreza for me was always the P1.
The Mitsubishi Evo VIII was the AWD performance car that missed the mark a little for me. I thought that the Evo looked better than the Impreza, was faster and sensational when you were "on it" but not very enjoyable to drive the rest of the time, too laggy and "crashy" and the engine just lacked the character of the Subaru "Boxer" engine, so even though the image of the Impreza was a bit of a negative for me in the 2000s, ultimately it just felt better to me to drive more of the time (and the one that I drove was the least extreme 260 version).
So what are the "perfect" FWD, RWD and AWD performance cars for you?
Edited by white_goodman on Friday 4th September 17:53
This wee gem - I'm 16yrs into: 427Kg fully fuelled & just 1/2 tonne with me in it... 170hp from the yamaha R1 5PW engine at 11K5 - 12k rpm, 6forward gears & no reverse (paddle-shift on the inherent 'dog' ' box) on the and .. the most amazing chassis /beyond-biddable/ from either end.
Cured me of wanting 'fast' cars...
Cured me of wanting 'fast' cars...
Edited by Huff on Saturday 5th September 17:29
I have this mix albeit the AWD isn't performance in anyway
E46 M3
R53 MCS
LR D3
I'd love a R53 MCS JCW GP1 like Leins
I'm happy with the E46 M3. If I couldn't have it, I'd love my FD3S RX7 back
I actually need a 4x4. FFRR SVR would do. Budget reality if the D3 s
ts itself would see me looking at offroad optioned Cayennes.
E46 M3
R53 MCS
LR D3
I'd love a R53 MCS JCW GP1 like Leins
I'm happy with the E46 M3. If I couldn't have it, I'd love my FD3S RX7 back
I actually need a 4x4. FFRR SVR would do. Budget reality if the D3 s
ts itself would see me looking at offroad optioned Cayennes.Fwd: I'm yet to drive one that inspires me.
Rwd: tough call between mk1/mk2 MX5 and BRZ for me, the MX5 is a little more organic/intuitive feeling to drive but the BRZ seats and driving position are better, its a bit sharper and faster.
4wd: best I've driven was an Impreza STi-RA, a tad frenetic with the close ratio gearbox but incredibly fun on a twisty road with the quick steering rack and rear-biased DCCD.
Legacy GTB (2002 late 3rd gen) was much more of a practical all-rounder, great in most ways but let down a bit by the steering being too light and slow-geared.
Rwd: tough call between mk1/mk2 MX5 and BRZ for me, the MX5 is a little more organic/intuitive feeling to drive but the BRZ seats and driving position are better, its a bit sharper and faster.
4wd: best I've driven was an Impreza STi-RA, a tad frenetic with the close ratio gearbox but incredibly fun on a twisty road with the quick steering rack and rear-biased DCCD.
Legacy GTB (2002 late 3rd gen) was much more of a practical all-rounder, great in most ways but let down a bit by the steering being too light and slow-geared.
Edited by GravelBen on Sunday 6th September 12:02
Heaveho said:
I had one of those! Fantastic car - superb engine and gearbox match but I found the handling quite twitchy, demonstrated in vivid eye widening technicolour as I travelled about 50m up the A329(M) sideways in the wet having overcooked it at the roundabout trying to impress a young lady. Thankfully no harm done apart from to my ego (and to any chances whatsoever later that evening...)
GravelBen said:
Fwd: I'm yet to drive one that inspires me.
That's rare indeed but my late Megane RS MK3 on 18" wheels with Recaro seats was an amazing steer overall. Really really inspiring on the road and even on track out of the box with just pads/fluid.I agree with the OP on the OG M2 praise for its versatility and ridiculously low running cost and now low depreciation.
About six years ago, this was our fleet…
Nearest is an i30 N Line - which over here comes with 200bhp and IRS tuned to the local bumpy roads - reminds me a bit of my fave fwd car, 306GTI6 and I’d love one of those.
Next is a 928S4, simply sublime combo of ride/handling for a car of its size, but it’s outhandled by its driveway replacement, a 968 which lacks the occasion but is fun just going to the shops.
Then across the road is a Gen5 Liberty GT, faster and more spacious than the Gen4 we had before but not as much fun. Would really like an S402.
Maybe not a dream list, but one I can relate to
Nearest is an i30 N Line - which over here comes with 200bhp and IRS tuned to the local bumpy roads - reminds me a bit of my fave fwd car, 306GTI6 and I’d love one of those.
Next is a 928S4, simply sublime combo of ride/handling for a car of its size, but it’s outhandled by its driveway replacement, a 968 which lacks the occasion but is fun just going to the shops.
Then across the road is a Gen5 Liberty GT, faster and more spacious than the Gen4 we had before but not as much fun. Would really like an S402.
Maybe not a dream list, but one I can relate to
FWD - Renault Megane RS Trophy
Fantastic car. Criminally underrated as journalists favour lap times and traction. Type R might be faster but it has nowhere near the personality or fun.
2nd - I30N brilliant car that as a sum of its parts punches well above its weight.
RWD - BMW M2 OG LCI
Amazing fun, reliable, sounds brilliant and does everything you need. Last really fun M car before they became super serious. Brilliant on track and doesn’t try to kill you. Only thing it missed was a slightly more special cabin. Engine should have been designated S considering how upgraded it is.
2nd place - Mazda MX-5 once again incredibly close.
AWD - Focus RS Mk3
My opinion has changed in these massively from being disappointed to being the best hot hatch ever made. Was years ahead and just a laugh to drive. Looks incredible in nitrous blue still to this day. Early engine issues and rubbish mpg are what knocks it down. The last truly fun hot hatch with personality.
2nd Place - BMW M3 incredible but lacks personality of the RS
Future one to watch M2 X-Drive
Fantastic car. Criminally underrated as journalists favour lap times and traction. Type R might be faster but it has nowhere near the personality or fun.
2nd - I30N brilliant car that as a sum of its parts punches well above its weight.
RWD - BMW M2 OG LCI
Amazing fun, reliable, sounds brilliant and does everything you need. Last really fun M car before they became super serious. Brilliant on track and doesn’t try to kill you. Only thing it missed was a slightly more special cabin. Engine should have been designated S considering how upgraded it is.
2nd place - Mazda MX-5 once again incredibly close.
AWD - Focus RS Mk3
My opinion has changed in these massively from being disappointed to being the best hot hatch ever made. Was years ahead and just a laugh to drive. Looks incredible in nitrous blue still to this day. Early engine issues and rubbish mpg are what knocks it down. The last truly fun hot hatch with personality.
2nd Place - BMW M3 incredible but lacks personality of the RS
Future one to watch M2 X-Drive
nickfrog said:
GravelBen said:
Fwd: I'm yet to drive one that inspires me.
That's rare indeed but my late Megane RS MK3 on 18" wheels with Recaro seats was an amazing steer overall. Really really inspiring on the road and even on track out of the box with just pads/fluid.I can see the appeal of a Integra or Civic Type-R, but they hold quite high prices for what they are - I'd have to particularly want a FWD to spend more money for a worse/older/higher miles example of a Type-R for a fun car over say a BRZ86 or MX5.
In general I've just found FWD handling quite one-dimensional, capable enough but every time I drive one its a brief novelty then I get bored of the FWD dynamic pretty quickly compared to RWD or 4WD. Maybe just personal preference.
GravelBen said:
In general I've just found FWD handling quite one-dimensional, capable enough but every time I drive one its a brief novelty then I get bored of the FWD dynamic pretty quickly compared to RWD or 4WD. Maybe just personal preference.
That's quite true in general. And then when you drive a Megane RS you realise it's all in the set up. It's probably far less one-dimensional than 99% of RWD road cars which are set up to undesteer and in most cases even push understeer. And I prefer RWD overall so no bias here. For all the praise that the chassis received, the MK3 is still underrated as CG2020UK said, although you probably need a track to realise!FWD: Citroen SM - The first really serious attempt at making a high performance FWD car. Mid engined, gyroscopically neutral steering geometry with full power operation (not just power assisted) and speed dependent synthetic 'feel', lowest drag factor of any production car for decades, carbon fibre wheels (in the 70s) and it looks like a space ship. Shame about that rubbish engine though...
RWD: Porsche 356B - RWD is from the 'motorised cart' era of car design but if you must have it why not have the engine at the back as well? The VW Beetle origins were more distant in the 'B' models, my pick would be one of the earlier T5 body ones.
AWD: Audi UR Quattro - The original and best.
RWD: Porsche 356B - RWD is from the 'motorised cart' era of car design but if you must have it why not have the engine at the back as well? The VW Beetle origins were more distant in the 'B' models, my pick would be one of the earlier T5 body ones.
AWD: Audi UR Quattro - The original and best.
FWD: Ford Focus ST. Absolute hooligan of a car but huge fun to drive and handled brilliantly
RWD: Ferrari 456GT. V12, manual gearbox and, well - just look at it.
AWD: As per the post above, it has the be the original and best, doesn't it? Unfortunately, it's not the Audi - it's the Jensen FF, obviously.
RWD: Ferrari 456GT. V12, manual gearbox and, well - just look at it.
AWD: As per the post above, it has the be the original and best, doesn't it? Unfortunately, it's not the Audi - it's the Jensen FF, obviously.
Not a fan of FWD, but the best I've had was a MK2 Golf GTi 16V.
RWD there are so many options. I love my BMW Z4M, but wouldn't say no to a Ferrari 275/4 GTB, Daytona, 288 GTO, F40 or 550 Maranello, V10 Gallardo or GMA T33 if my Lottery numbers came up!
AWD just doesn't interest me at all.
RWD there are so many options. I love my BMW Z4M, but wouldn't say no to a Ferrari 275/4 GTB, Daytona, 288 GTO, F40 or 550 Maranello, V10 Gallardo or GMA T33 if my Lottery numbers came up!
AWD just doesn't interest me at all.
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