Vehicle Ownership

[nexis86]

Hi all,

I have looked on the forum but cannot find the thread that relates to my problem. Im not sure if this is the correct place to be asking this question but i hope someone who reads this will know the answer.

5 weeks ago my girlfriend and i bought a car from my grandparents for £3500, it was valued by 2 local garages at £6000. We got it so cheap because it was a very low (3k) milage 56 plate car and my grandparents wanted to keep it in the family.

My (then) Girlfriend's uncle loaned us the £3500 to pay for the car, which we were going to pay back 50/50 over the next few years.

We have now split up and she has taken the car and both sets of keys. Its her details on the DVLA document as the registered keeper but the reciept of sale from my grandparents has my name on it.

I want to solve the problem in a civil way and have already (within 2days of splitting up) got the £3500 to pay her uncle back in full and take what is rightfully mine.

If she does not want to give the car back once i pay her uncle is there anything i can do legally?

A few sites and forums i have read all say that the car owner is the person who's name is on the recipt of sale, and not who's name is on the DVLA document.

I hope one of you reading can help me.

[Kiltox]

V5C is not proof of ownership, a sales receipt is.

[john_p]

Hmm.. I suppose it's theft.. but the police won't care. Worth a try?

Make sure the uncle signs a receipt when you give him the money!
The loan and the car are totally separate so don't let anyone muddle you up over that.

[Lambo FirstBlood]

Kiltox said:

V5C is not proof of ownership, a sales receipt is.

He's right mate. Also your grandparents will testify to the authenticity of the receipt.

[davepoth]

It's your car. The V5 now looks like this:



So it's pretty clear.

[Fatman2]

Sorry I don't understand.

You bought it with the intention that it was going to be 50/50. So why is it rightfully yours? Are you wanting to split the car in two i.e. sell it and split the profit?

[nexis86]

ok so as it stands i own the car.

i am willing to pay her uncle the full £3500 that he loaned us for the car.

but what do i do if/when she says "no, im not selling the car to you"

who do i go to on a legal level to get it sorted? any ideas?

thx for all replys guys

[nexis86]

Fatman2 said:

Sorry I don't understand.

You bought it with the intention that it was going to be 50/50. So why is it rightfully yours? Are you wanting to split the car in two i.e. sell it and split the profit?

Given it was from her side of the family I'd be inclined to give it up and let her pay the £3500 back. If not then you both pay 50/50 and you both own a share. Can't see much mileage in this though, given you've split up.

the car was sold to us from MY grandparents. her uncle simply loaned us the money to pay my grandparents for it. the recipt for the sale of the car is in my name.

[Fatman2]

nexis86 said:

the car was sold to us from MY grandparents. her uncle simply loaned us the money to pay my grandparents for it. the recipt for the sale of the car is in my name.

I realise that but I don't think it's relevant who sold the car to who as the intent was to sell it jointly. But I agree that your name is on the receipt.

Sounds a bit of a mess to be honest as you obviously needed the loan (from her grandparents) to buy the car in the first place. It's unfortunate that you couldn't stump up the money you have now, a few weeks back, as it would have made it all much easier. As it stands if she's already paid back half then I guess she owns half the car (unless you're going to go back on the deal).

It's out of order that she's taken both sets of keys but you need to try and do this properly and ask if you can buy her out. If she's not interested (and gives you a set of keys back) then you're in trouble.

[nexis86]

Fatman2 said:

I realise that but I don't think it's relevant who sold the car to who as the intent was to sell it jointly. But I agree that your name is on the receipt.

Sounds a bit of a mess to be honest as you obviously needed the loan (from her grandparents) to buy the car in the first place. It's unfortunate that you couldn't stump up the money you have now, a few weeks back, as it would have made it all much easier. As it stands if she's already paid back half then I guess she owns half the car (unless you're going to go back on the deal).

It's out of order that she's taken both sets of keys but you need to try and do this properly and ask if you can buy her out. If she's not interested (and gives you a set of keys back) then you're in trouble.

There has not been a penny paid back to her uncle who loaned us the money from either myself or her. I have had to take a bank loan which will cost me £4300 to repay in order to pay her uncle back. The car means alot to me as it was my grandparents who sold it to me at such a low cost, they lost out of an extra £2500 becuase the thought they were keeping it in the family.

i just dont know what i can do if she gives me the finger and tells me to P*** off.

[Efbe]

nexis86 said:

There has not been a penny paid back to her uncle who loaned us the money from either myself or her. I have had to take a bank loan which will cost me £4300 to repay in order to pay her uncle back. The car means alot to me as it was my grandparents who sold it to me at such a low cost, they lost out of an extra £2500 becuase the thought they were keeping it in the family.

i just dont know what i can do if she gives me the finger and tells me to P*** off.

is the car worth the hassle?

the way i see it, you are forcing yourself to buy this car. does she want it? is it worth a lot more?

you're telling us half the story here

[nexis86]

Efbe said:

is the car worth the hassle?

the way i see it, you are forcing yourself to buy this car. does she want it? is it worth a lot more?

you're telling us half the story here

yes its worth the hastle.

it was owned by my grandparents, who wanted to sell it, had 2 dealers look at it and offer then £6000 for it. but they decided as it was so low milage (3000) and i needed a new car as the car i was using was not reliable that they would sell it to me for £3500. My grandparents are aware of the situation and are obviously distraught.

i dunno what you mean by half the story i thought i explained everything in my first post.

[Fatman2]

nexis86 said:

There has not been a penny paid back to her uncle who loaned us the money from either myself or her. I have had to take a bank loan which will cost me £4300 to repay in order to pay her uncle back. The car means alot to me as it was my grandparents who sold it to me at such a low cost, they lost out of an extra £2500 becuase the thought they were keeping it in the family.

i just dont know what i can do if she gives me the finger and tells me to P*** off.

I feel for you as it's a potentially nasty situation.

I guess the first course of action is to speak to your ex and try to sort it out amicably. Try and make a point of the fact her name on the V5 does not mean she's the legal owner of the car. As there really is no point in joint ownership then the only sensible option is to buy her out. Hopefully she will see sense.

If not then resort to the police, who I would hope would get your keys back for you.

Best of luck

[nexis86]

Fatman2 said:

I feel for you as it's a potentially nasty situation.

I guess the first course of action is to speak to your ex and try to sort it out amicably. Try and make a point of the fact her name on the V5 does not mean she's the legal owner of the car. As there really is no point in joint ownership then the only sensible option is to buy her out. Hopefully she will see sense.

If not then resort to the police, who I would hope would get your keys back for you.

Best of luck

i have the full amount of money to pay her now. but i dont want to tell her about who is the legal owner blah blah blah and scare her into selling the car, which she can i guess seeing as she has the V5 in her name, even though in the eyes of the law she does not own it.

[Fatman2]

Efbe said:

you're telling us half the story here

Yeah. I think the OP is being very kind about his ex!

I mean, what sort of woman would knick both sets of keys

[Efbe]

nexis86 said:

i have the full amount of money to pay her now. but i dont want to tell her about who is the legal owner blah blah blah and scare her into selling the car, which she can i guess seeing as she has the V5 in her name, even though in the eyes of the law she does not own it.

confused.

I thought you were paying the uncle, not her?

but yeah I wouldn't go into the whole ownership until its the last step.
has she agreed to give it to you if you do hand over the money to her/her uncle?

[rallycross]

If she has both sets of keys and the v5 is in her name and she sourced the money to pay for the car its going to be very difficult to get it back - unless she wants to give it back.

Plus she may be getting advised to keep hold of it.

This might pain you to do so - but you might have to pay her a bit more to 'make it worth her while' if you really want it back.

[Risotto]

If things get nasty, she might sell the car for £6k and claim ignorance if the validity of the sale is queried. This will only add to the complexity and will make it even harder to get the car back. So keep things polite if possible!

I'm not really sure where you stand. The receipt has your name on it, suggesting you have a financial interest in the car (usually enough to establish ownership) but she came up with the money - so actually she could argue it's her money that's tied up in the car.

Which probably explains why she took the keys

I think you're both suspicious that the other will try to take the car without paying for it. Have you let her know you're in a position to pay back the money in return for the car? For all we know, she's holding the car in case you try to claim ownership and leave her with a £3.5k debt.

Edited by Risotto on Friday 25th February 15:40

[F458]

if the receipt is in your name then its your car/not half her car half your car!!!
it doesn't matter what it says on the V5 either.
it doesn't matter where the £ came from, thats a separate deal with you both and her uncle
i would imagine her uncle is just as concerned as to whether you are going to pay your half of the funds you borrowed from him!!!
i would imagine the best way to approach this is to speak to her uncle and tell him you are willing to settle your half of the loan and her half if he can get her to hand over the car to you & sign the V5 to transfer ownership - you will then be another new owner on the V5. if he can't get her to do this then tell him to stick the 1/2 of the money he lent you both. the problem here is that as the car was bought 'under valued' then they (her and her uncle) could sell the car for £6000 and then he would have his money back and they may split the 'profit'!! i suggest you try the uncle 1st if not then get a tow truck and go and pick it up - but tell her what you have done and leave a photocopy of the receipt! she will probably then call the police and let her deal with them as they won't be interested and then that might make her realise that then she still owes her uncle 1/2 of the loan and she has NO car!!! always remember poesession is 9/10ths of the law!!! put it this way if the v5 was in your name you would be round there straight away!! name on the V5 means nothing other than that person is responsible for taxing/mot'ing the car and for speeding/parking tickets - remind her of this when you have the car and she won't sign the V5 transfer of ownership form!!!

[rallycross]

Sorry but if you take F458's view you are going to be very upset if and when you dont get the car back.

No one will be able to force her to give the car back based on the info you have given - if she does not want to there is very little you can do. Its a civil matter, the police are less than useless in this case - you are more likely to get arrested for trying to steel it from her than they are likely to assist you.

Quoting your own words

"5 weeks ago my girlfriend and i bought a car from my grandparents for £3500"