Alfa GTV V6/Fiat Coupe 20v turbo...poor man's Ferrari?
Discussion
I am emigrating to Canada in 6 months and need some advice on my final automotive purchase in the UK. I would like something sporty yet affordable (<£5k) that I can pass on to my father to enjoy in his retirement when I go. I know that he has always fancied a sports car but my mum somehow always seems to talk him out of it. I would be using the car every day for the next 6 months whereas for my father, it would be more of a weekend toy. It would probably have to live outside as my father has a very small garage but I would probably purchase a cover (I’m worried that the weight of the cover may damage the hood if the car was a soft top though).
I like the idea of a convertible (I have owned a mk2 MX-5 and an E30 325i convertible in the past) and it may be my last convertible as it snows in Canada for 6 months of the year. However, I would also consider a coupe.
I’m trying to come up with something that we would both like. I’m interested in high performance and handling as well as style (I currently have a 2004 Impreza WRX) whereas my father would be more interested in comfort, a hint of practicality and something that feels special every time you drive it rather than ultimate performance. My father’s driving style would probably be quite suitable for an automatic, although he has never owned one. These are the cars that I am considering:
MGF VVC
Toyota MR2
Mazda MX-5 (mk1)
Alfa Spider (classic, early 90s)
BMW Z3 2.2 Sport
Mercedes SLK
Mercedes SL (90s)
VW Golf GTi Cabriolet
Saab 900 Turbo convertible (classic)
Alfa GTV V6
Fiat Coupe 20v Turbo
Although I like the idea of the Z3, I can’t really see my father in a BMW or a MR2 for that matter. I know that he really liked the MX-5 when I had it but it seems a bit too obvious and I feel like I’ve been there already. I really like the idea of the Fiat or the Alfa GTV as they offer the level of the performance that I would like and the style, sense of occasion and practicality that would appeal to my father. I remember admiring the Fiat Coupe in the showroom with my father when it had just come out (being on a slightly more modest budget, we were buying a new Cinquecento Sporting for my mother)! I quite fancy a yellow 20v turbo but looking through the classifieds, the only yellow ones seem to be 16v turbos. All the 20v turbos seem to be hideously modified or in metallic lilac. I like the Alfa as I have always wanted to own an Alfa and am a bit sad that I will never get to own one in Canada. I know that I would have more options if I were to consider a 2-litre GTV but in my head an Alfa should come with a V6. My problem with these two options is that when I think about it, buying a 15 year old Alfa/Fiat sounds like complete lunacy and I don’t want to leave my father with something that’s going to be an expensive heap of trouble. Would I be better off going for something like a Mercedes which has a better reputation for reliability and durability?
I like the idea of a convertible (I have owned a mk2 MX-5 and an E30 325i convertible in the past) and it may be my last convertible as it snows in Canada for 6 months of the year. However, I would also consider a coupe.
I’m trying to come up with something that we would both like. I’m interested in high performance and handling as well as style (I currently have a 2004 Impreza WRX) whereas my father would be more interested in comfort, a hint of practicality and something that feels special every time you drive it rather than ultimate performance. My father’s driving style would probably be quite suitable for an automatic, although he has never owned one. These are the cars that I am considering:
MGF VVC
Toyota MR2
Mazda MX-5 (mk1)
Alfa Spider (classic, early 90s)
BMW Z3 2.2 Sport
Mercedes SLK
Mercedes SL (90s)
VW Golf GTi Cabriolet
Saab 900 Turbo convertible (classic)
Alfa GTV V6
Fiat Coupe 20v Turbo
Although I like the idea of the Z3, I can’t really see my father in a BMW or a MR2 for that matter. I know that he really liked the MX-5 when I had it but it seems a bit too obvious and I feel like I’ve been there already. I really like the idea of the Fiat or the Alfa GTV as they offer the level of the performance that I would like and the style, sense of occasion and practicality that would appeal to my father. I remember admiring the Fiat Coupe in the showroom with my father when it had just come out (being on a slightly more modest budget, we were buying a new Cinquecento Sporting for my mother)! I quite fancy a yellow 20v turbo but looking through the classifieds, the only yellow ones seem to be 16v turbos. All the 20v turbos seem to be hideously modified or in metallic lilac. I like the Alfa as I have always wanted to own an Alfa and am a bit sad that I will never get to own one in Canada. I know that I would have more options if I were to consider a 2-litre GTV but in my head an Alfa should come with a V6. My problem with these two options is that when I think about it, buying a 15 year old Alfa/Fiat sounds like complete lunacy and I don’t want to leave my father with something that’s going to be an expensive heap of trouble. Would I be better off going for something like a Mercedes which has a better reputation for reliability and durability?
I test drove a Fiat Coupe. The lag was so long it feels like a 1.2 most of the time. Terrible. Although I really wanted to love it. The shape is lovely and I think they're very cool.
We bought a GTV when they were new back in S reg. Stunning looks and much better than the Fiat. No where near as fast though
We bought a GTV when they were new back in S reg. Stunning looks and much better than the Fiat. No where near as fast though
That's a pretty varied shortlist! I've only experience of two of them:
If you buy carefully there's no reason why the GTV should be ruinous, there's a good buyers guide on the alfaowner forums which goes through the major things to look out for. A good one is likely to cost around £4.5k, if you buy at the cheaper end of the market you'll end up paying the same sorting it anyway (that was my experience at least!). Performance isn't going to set the world alight, but its brisk enough and feels faster than it is; it's relatively civilised with the standard exhaust; good fun in the twisties even if the V6 makes a bit nose heavy; and will put a smile on your face whenever you drive it. On the downside the seats aren't particularly comfortable; the ones in the back are completely useless unless your passengers are Douglas Bader impersonators; and the boot is only just big enough for a packet of crisps - practical it is not! : )
The Saab has very little in common with the GTV: it'll easily carry four (and more than double the luggage of the GTV) for a start. It's definitely no sportscar though, with fairly laggy power delivery, but it's still quicker than most people expect it to be, and good fun once you've worked out how to drive it - whether pressing on, or just cruising. They also handle very well for their size, while still having reasonable ride quality, and the seats are excellent. The roofs (rooves?) are very good (just check for leaks below the rear screen), and the heater's strong enough to cook with, so there's rarely an excuse to have it up anyway. Mine's always been garaged, but I've known several that were kept outside and they don't seem to suffer for it. A cover certainly won't do it any harm, they're pretty sturdy. The engines are pretty bullet proof if left standard, and given regular, frequent oil changes. I'd advise the against getting an auto though, the five-speed manual may be a little obstructive; but mating a three-speed box with a laggy turbo was a bloody stupid idea, they're terrible. Loads of good advice can be found on uksaabs.
Either of them should have you looking back over your shoulder as you walk away...
If you buy carefully there's no reason why the GTV should be ruinous, there's a good buyers guide on the alfaowner forums which goes through the major things to look out for. A good one is likely to cost around £4.5k, if you buy at the cheaper end of the market you'll end up paying the same sorting it anyway (that was my experience at least!). Performance isn't going to set the world alight, but its brisk enough and feels faster than it is; it's relatively civilised with the standard exhaust; good fun in the twisties even if the V6 makes a bit nose heavy; and will put a smile on your face whenever you drive it. On the downside the seats aren't particularly comfortable; the ones in the back are completely useless unless your passengers are Douglas Bader impersonators; and the boot is only just big enough for a packet of crisps - practical it is not! : )
The Saab has very little in common with the GTV: it'll easily carry four (and more than double the luggage of the GTV) for a start. It's definitely no sportscar though, with fairly laggy power delivery, but it's still quicker than most people expect it to be, and good fun once you've worked out how to drive it - whether pressing on, or just cruising. They also handle very well for their size, while still having reasonable ride quality, and the seats are excellent. The roofs (rooves?) are very good (just check for leaks below the rear screen), and the heater's strong enough to cook with, so there's rarely an excuse to have it up anyway. Mine's always been garaged, but I've known several that were kept outside and they don't seem to suffer for it. A cover certainly won't do it any harm, they're pretty sturdy. The engines are pretty bullet proof if left standard, and given regular, frequent oil changes. I'd advise the against getting an auto though, the five-speed manual may be a little obstructive; but mating a three-speed box with a laggy turbo was a bloody stupid idea, they're terrible. Loads of good advice can be found on uksaabs.
Either of them should have you looking back over your shoulder as you walk away...
white_goodman said:
I am emigrating to Canada in 6 months and need some advice on my final automotive purchase in the UK. I would like something sporty yet affordable (<£5k) that I can pass on to my father to enjoy in his retirement when I go. I know that he has always fancied a sports car but my mum somehow always seems to talk him out of it. I would be using the car every day for the next 6 months whereas for my father, it would be more of a weekend toy. It would probably have to live outside as my father has a very small garage but I would probably purchase a cover (I’m worried that the weight of the cover may damage the hood if the car was a soft top though).
I like the idea of a convertible (I have owned a mk2 MX-5 and an E30 325i convertible in the past) and it may be my last convertible as it snows in Canada for 6 months of the year. However, I would also consider a coupe.
I’m trying to come up with something that we would both like. I’m interested in high performance and handling as well as style (I currently have a 2004 Impreza WRX) whereas my father would be more interested in comfort, a hint of practicality and something that feels special every time you drive it rather than ultimate performance. My father’s driving style would probably be quite suitable for an automatic, although he has never owned one. These are the cars that I am considering:
MGF VVC
Toyota MR2
Mazda MX-5 (mk1)
Alfa Spider (classic, early 90s)
BMW Z3 2.2 Sport
Mercedes SLK
Mercedes SL (90s)
VW Golf GTi Cabriolet
Saab 900 Turbo convertible (classic)
Alfa GTV V6
Fiat Coupe 20v Turbo
Although I like the idea of the Z3, I can’t really see my father in a BMW or a MR2 for that matter. I know that he really liked the MX-5 when I had it but it seems a bit too obvious and I feel like I’ve been there already. I really like the idea of the Fiat or the Alfa GTV as they offer the level of the performance that I would like and the style, sense of occasion and practicality that would appeal to my father. I remember admiring the Fiat Coupe in the showroom with my father when it had just come out (being on a slightly more modest budget, we were buying a new Cinquecento Sporting for my mother)! I quite fancy a yellow 20v turbo but looking through the classifieds, the only yellow ones seem to be 16v turbos. All the 20v turbos seem to be hideously modified or in metallic lilac. I like the Alfa as I have always wanted to own an Alfa and am a bit sad that I will never get to own one in Canada. I know that I would have more options if I were to consider a 2-litre GTV but in my head an Alfa should come with a V6. My problem with these two options is that when I think about it, buying a 15 year old Alfa/Fiat sounds like complete lunacy and I don’t want to leave my father with something that’s going to be an expensive heap of trouble. Would I be better off going for something like a Mercedes which has a better reputation for reliability and durability?
Mercs were very unreliable '97-'06. Stick with Japanese MX-5 or a MR2 are you're best bets from you're list. A Z3 could suit your needs quite nicely though.I like the idea of a convertible (I have owned a mk2 MX-5 and an E30 325i convertible in the past) and it may be my last convertible as it snows in Canada for 6 months of the year. However, I would also consider a coupe.
I’m trying to come up with something that we would both like. I’m interested in high performance and handling as well as style (I currently have a 2004 Impreza WRX) whereas my father would be more interested in comfort, a hint of practicality and something that feels special every time you drive it rather than ultimate performance. My father’s driving style would probably be quite suitable for an automatic, although he has never owned one. These are the cars that I am considering:
MGF VVC
Toyota MR2
Mazda MX-5 (mk1)
Alfa Spider (classic, early 90s)
BMW Z3 2.2 Sport
Mercedes SLK
Mercedes SL (90s)
VW Golf GTi Cabriolet
Saab 900 Turbo convertible (classic)
Alfa GTV V6
Fiat Coupe 20v Turbo
Although I like the idea of the Z3, I can’t really see my father in a BMW or a MR2 for that matter. I know that he really liked the MX-5 when I had it but it seems a bit too obvious and I feel like I’ve been there already. I really like the idea of the Fiat or the Alfa GTV as they offer the level of the performance that I would like and the style, sense of occasion and practicality that would appeal to my father. I remember admiring the Fiat Coupe in the showroom with my father when it had just come out (being on a slightly more modest budget, we were buying a new Cinquecento Sporting for my mother)! I quite fancy a yellow 20v turbo but looking through the classifieds, the only yellow ones seem to be 16v turbos. All the 20v turbos seem to be hideously modified or in metallic lilac. I like the Alfa as I have always wanted to own an Alfa and am a bit sad that I will never get to own one in Canada. I know that I would have more options if I were to consider a 2-litre GTV but in my head an Alfa should come with a V6. My problem with these two options is that when I think about it, buying a 15 year old Alfa/Fiat sounds like complete lunacy and I don’t want to leave my father with something that’s going to be an expensive heap of trouble. Would I be better off going for something like a Mercedes which has a better reputation for reliability and durability?
k-ink said:
I test drove a Fiat Coupe. The lag was so long it feels like a 1.2 most of the time. Terrible. Although I really wanted to love it. The shape is lovely and I think they're very cool.
We bought a GTV when they were new back in S reg. Stunning looks and much better than the Fiat. No where near as fast though
You're not driving it right and it's not lag, that's off boost low rev performance. We bought a GTV when they were new back in S reg. Stunning looks and much better than the Fiat. No where near as fast though
The Fiat Coup generate maximum power at 5900rpm you have to rev it like an N/A engine, when you actually have it in the power band the lag is virtually non-existent.
I've just bought a GTV V6. Its wonderful. The build quality is a little iffy and there is an air of fragility about her, but the engine is truly legendary. The chassis is good too, it feels very rigid and the steering is delightfully sharp and pointy. I haven't noticed the nose heaviness that people talk about TBH.
Talksteer said:
You're not driving it right and it's not lag, that's off boost low rev performance.
The Fiat Coup generate maximum power at 5900rpm you have to rev it like an N/A engine, when you actually have it in the power band the lag is virtually non-existent.
They are a bit laggy, but you're probably right that he's talking about the boost threshold, which is relatively high. The Fiat Coup generate maximum power at 5900rpm you have to rev it like an N/A engine, when you actually have it in the power band the lag is virtually non-existent.
Talksteer said:
k-ink said:
I test drove a Fiat Coupe. The lag was so long it feels like a 1.2 most of the time. Terrible. Although I really wanted to love it. The shape is lovely and I think they're very cool.
We bought a GTV when they were new back in S reg. Stunning looks and much better than the Fiat. No where near as fast though
You're not driving it right and it's not lag, that's off boost low rev performance. We bought a GTV when they were new back in S reg. Stunning looks and much better than the Fiat. No where near as fast though
The Fiat Coup generate maximum power at 5900rpm you have to rev it like an N/A engine, when you actually have it in the power band the lag is virtually non-existent.
OP, for reference my coupe currently lives outside and has done in the 2 and a bit years I've owned it. It isn't an issue. They do need to be used regularly IME. If you look through my previous posts you'll find a decent little write up of info from a year or so back which will tell you pretty much everything you'll need to know. And before someone says it, a cam belt change is NOT an engine out job.
They're are wonderful cars and if you treat them well, they'll do the same to your wallet. Pick up a solid Plus/LE while they're cheap.
ETA
See my post here under my old (crap) user name GJ88;
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Edited by ImDesigner on Sunday 13th March 19:21
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